Javelin Oil Filter adaptor

[Robin Fairservice]

The first try at a gasket was a little bit too large and it bulged out of the side. I went back and two more, slightly smaller, were made for me. These are a shade large, but after two or three trys I got the filter to seal. In the meanwhile I went back to the Industrial Filter supplier to see if I could get filters from them. We went through the Baldwin Filter catalogue and found one that was the correct size and type, so I am using one of these now. The reference was P170. Baldwin's have a web site: www.baldwinfilters.com Go to the catalogue and search for P170, and then got to Product Guide. There are two pages that have information on, and one of these has the cross over numbers. Maybe the technical people can review and comment on these.

[Leo Bolter]

Hello all.

In reference to cross referencing to obtain the original type of oil filter elements:

Firstly: Great detective work Robin!

Secondly: To use the address given by Robin in the previous post you will need to drop the period off the end or it won't work (ie. it should read http://www.baldwinfilters.com ). I went from there directly to the catalogue link at the top, just under their banner.

Thirdly: I had no luck with searching for P-170, so searched the catalogue for one of the numbers found on one of the filter boxes I have in my shed (R243P). Baldwins came up with their equivalent as P171. This filter has exactly identical OD, ID and length as the two brands of filters I have (see pics). But although the picture shows it with sealing gaskets at each end, the specification note at the bottom implies to me, that P171 actually does not have these seals . . . . hmmm! (If missing they could be easily made from cork sheet and glued into place with Ados F2 though)

The filter numbers are clearly shown on the pictures of the filters owned by me (obtained from Jowett Spares, NZ). Someone else may care to do other cross references on the web by using these numbers so as to seek alternative suppliers/manufactures. I'm sure we'll all be interested to see them posted here.

Keith C has supplied these numbers:

. . . . Tried my local motor factor who is good with old stuff. I took two old boxes down but he could not find equivalent. Purolator mf84a or Ce176a, Tecalemit fg2471 or GUD G285

Ryco R243P



GUD G 223 F (the F probably denotes "felt", it could possibly be left off in a search)

You will notice that the above filter packs come with a range of rubber rings . . . I have a Zillion of the rings that are left over (and also unused correct ones . . . I don't change them every time) but at this stage I am reluctant to pass them on as I don't know which rings are the ones with the correct dimensions!


Baldwin P171

Descriptions : Full-Flow Lube Element
Fits : J.C. Bamford Equipment; Leyland Engines
Replaces : Chrysler 2067263; Nissan 15208-31300
O.D. : 2 7/8 (73.0)
I.D. : 1 5/16 (33.3)
Length : 4 1/4 (108.0)
F.Gskt : G147-A, G161
O.Gskt : G183
Related To : P172 (With End Seals)

I hope this is of some help in the search for filter elements (and to retain the originality of our cars ) . . . . . but now comes the inevitable advertising plug!

JOWETT SPARES, NEW ZEALAND have then in stock! Try there FIRST!

Cheers, Leo.

[Robin Fairservice]

The P170 filter does have a sealing ring at each end. There were no gaskets with it, so that problem still exists. The outfit that made the custom gasket for me could make larger numbers if asked, but the minimum order would be $200 CAN. What is one of these gaskets worth? If there is a demand, I would only go ahead if I was sure of the correct dimensions. The material used was neoprene, but they seem to have sheets of other materials in stock.

[TedAllen]

My Unipart filters are very much like the 171 shown but with a larger 'grommet' in the ends which easily comes out.
On the subject of core plugs I was away in the caravan last weekend and took my last one with me. I was directed by a local guy to a small country garage in Cheshire.
I called in, showed the owner the core plug and he produced the obligatory 1930s biscuit tin full, poured them out onto the bench and said 'sort that lot out'. I liberated his entire stock of 15 from the several hundred there for a fiver. (while 'er indoors sat in the car scowling ) Strange, she doesn't seem to have the slightest interest in core plugs !
It might be a good idea for anybody else away from home to do the same.
Ted.

[Leo Bolter]

Hi Robin.

Believe it or not, I did a further search for the P170 this morning . . . and there it was! . . . I'd looked for it at least 3 times while composing the post last night!

Anyway, the way I see it is the P170 appears to be too long to fit within the steel outer "bell" casing (part number 53424) at 5 13/32" (137.3mm). Other dimensions appear to be fine. There is a chance though, that your casing is longer that the one on my Jupiter . . . . Very early cars had a filter that was the same as a Bradford's I'm told, and that is a long one.

I must admit, I haven't dismantled my car's filter arrangement and I don't have a spare casing to assemble onto the aluminium filter casting I have. But by measuring the outside, and knowing there's a large washer and spring in there too, (used to hold the element in place) I would say the length's the problem with the P170 whereas the P171 is "just right".

I have just phoned Neil Moore (our Jowett parts Guru) for verification of what I'm blathering on about . . . . he made a couple of very interesting comments. He says that my setup has, at some time, been adapted to utilise the "modern" elements which have the same sized (1 5/16") ID holes at each end. (The originals has a small hole at one end). There was/is a adaptor kit available from JCC of NZ to facilitate this.

As far as the casing/casting groove sealing rubber rings are concerned, have you thought to try purchasing a "O" ring that'll fit into the groove. That should work fine.

I've just measured up my spare aluminium filter casting. The dimensions for a Nitrile "O" ring are 80 mm OD x 2 mm thick. The dimensions for a "square" section (as normally used) are 80 mm OD x 2 mm thick x 4 mm deep.

In the meantime, if you care to reveal your postal address in a e-mail to me, I'll mail you a couple of the spare rubber rings that I have. They should last you for many years as they don't normally need to be changed (unless damaged) when doing a filter change.

By the way, in case you weren't aware, there's a square section rubber seal that sits in a recess where the through bolt passes through the "bell" too. That needs to be in good condition. It's squeezed by the flat washer under the hexagon head of the bolt. Those seals are not usually supplied . . . you'll probably need to make one.

Older illustrations indicate a fibre washer was used under this bolt . . . not a good idea to use fibre washers anywhere . . . use copper or aluminium!



"Old" Illustration



Internal Arrangement

Cheers for now.
Leo.

[TedAllen]

Following this subject, I have been meaning to ask for some advice. At the Jowett garden sale in Bradford, I bought a very nice , clean and uncorroded matching pair of engine casings. Along with them was a rear timing cover unlike any that I have ever seen or owned.
This casting has no facility for fitting an oil cooler and is a lot shallower in section than the normal ones. It has the drain plug and the gauge take-off as normal but the groove for the large seal seems wider and the thread for holding the bowl goes right through to the front and is threaded..I guess 3/16 BSF. There is no bowl or bolt with it although the bowl diameter seems to be as normal. I would guess that this is from a very early engine although my hydro mechanical parts book shows one with cooler connections. It looks very neat and, of course, there are two fewer places for oil to leak.
Has anyone out there had experience of one of these or can give advice on filters and fittings to suit.
My stock of rear covers is low now and it would be good to be able to use this one, especially if a spin-off adaptor could be made.
Ted

[ian Howell]

Ted: - A small crumb to add to the feast - IF the engine castings AND the timing cover were all from the same engine, the engine number on the nearside crankcase might give you a clue as to the age, and therefore Mark? (PA, PB, PC etc) of the oil filter arrangement.

[TedAllen]

Hi Ian,
Unfortunately not. The casting was in a sump I bought and although it was lying not far from the engine, I couldn't say if they were once mated.
The engine is 1950..EO/ series. I might be wrong but I think they had the oil-cooler casting by then.
The centre bolt hole is 3/16 BSF and the thread goes right through. The maximum thickness of the casting is 1.25 inches and the 'footprint' is exactly the same as the larger one. The groove for the seal is 4.4mm wide. If someone can explain how to attach a photo, I might be able to show it.
Regards
Ted

[Leo Bolter]

Here's a simple, inbuilt method to upload pictures,

Know where the picture you want to use resides . . . maybe a copy of it on your desktop would be a good idea.

Assuming you are already in the REPLY mode . . .

Once you've typed in the preamble of what you want to say in the reply and are ready for the placement of your pic in the text, place your cursor on the words "UploadPic" (just above and to the right of the REPLY box you are typing in). Double click, and follow the instructions in the box that pops up. Once it has done it's thing, there'll be a dialoge asking you to choose from a couple of options of downloading the picture/pictures.


THE UPLOAD PICTURE/S BOX

Put in a Caption . . . then continue with your typing . . . .

ALSO SEE: JowettTalk Tips in the main Forum Index.

[TedAllen]

Thanks Leo,
I have managed to download a piccy once but I'd forgotten how in the meantime. Now can't get the pics I took today to jump from camera to PC...bums ! I'll try again tomorrow.
Further to the previous post, there is a drawing on page 32 of the workshop manual showing an oil pressure test which seems to show this casting. If so then I think this is for the Vokes filter until superceded in 51 by the tecalemit one. It would be nice to be able to use it. The part number cast into it is 50690 I think. Might just be 50890 but I'd go for the former...any information, anybody ?
Ted

[Forumadmin]

Tony Mumby of JOAC spares has supplied me with some spin-off adaptor plates and spare filters. Very easy to fit and do not look too bad, although purists will complain. Since the engine is destined for the great SC rebuild that started 25 years ago, I thought an easier filter change for Amy in the next 25 years was a sensible mod.

I think the spin off filters may do a better job of cleaning the oil than the original felt ones. Whether they will cope with what will be much dirtier oil from the old engine is yet to be seen. Perhaps the by pass valve will come into use! Now, anybody any idea how to fit a warning light to tell you it has?

The spending spree continued as I also purchased a fan for the Javelin from Holdens. This is necessary as the car will spend a lot of time taxiing at the Goodwood Festival of Speed. This second fan will support the existing one as there is no mechanical fan, having been removed by the previous owner in the 60's.

[Drummond Black]

I have been using modern spin-on oil filters on my Javelin & Jupiter for over 12 years now. I made all the adaptors myself and have fitted several other Scottish Section cars with this mod. The filter that I use is a Crossland that is standard on the Peugeot / Citroen 1905 diesel engine ( BX models. ) It has a 20 mm thread on the filter.

Over this period I have never encountered and filtration problems. The filter is finer than normal and the oil remains reasonably clean. The oil and filter are changed every year usually completing about 3,000 miles.

Drawings are available if required.

Drummond