Starting The Engine

AlanBartlett · Post by **AlanBartlett** » Sun Jun 03, 2007 8:07 pm

Hi Tony I have yet to check for sparks on points and plugs because am getting the distributor cap back tomorow with fixed screws and wire replacement, then I shall check the plugs with the spanner in better cap and plug thing shocking, and for the distrutor I will look and listen out for a spark on points. But does any one have any previous history of popping sounds? What I wrote before was what I thought may have been happening but am not entirely sure just a guess

ian Howell · Post by **ian Howell** » Sun Jun 03, 2007 8:13 pm

Now this is just for fun: - Many years ago when I took my Javelin to one of the 'Lost Causes' rallies at Beaulieu, a guy turned up with a pre-war, post vintage car (not sure what make, but irrelevant) that he had had trouble with sparks on the way to the show.

He removed the distributor and got lots of help cleaning and resetting the points and then timing it all back up again, BUT . .

He got it 180 degrees out of sync and after several 'pop's, eventually there was a sizeable bang as the exhaust pipe full of petrol mist was ignited! The fun bit was that a family was having a picnic within 'shooting' distance!

AlanBartlett · Post by **AlanBartlett** » Sun Jun 03, 2007 8:30 pm

oh great that should please the old retirement people out the back near the garage then they really can complain of making too much noise.

Right here is a list of what I have done to the whole car to get where I am now.

I have take the engine apart, both cylinderheads off, both big ends off but not piston silver metal things. petrol pump off, flywheel. cleaned all of that up as near to clean as i could get it. put it all back together. replaced the dynamo off the old engine because the one that was on there the brushes were no more just strands of entangled wire. and thats basically all I've done, replaced the seals on most things, head gaskets, made some make shift inlet manifold gaskets and exaust just to get it going.

Rewired the whole car just left to do is the lighting dip relay and maybe a fog lamp.

Have also grease 9 out of 18 grease nipples mostly the front of the car.

And that folks is I think all for now if I remember correctly.

Post by **Forumadmin** » Sun Jun 03, 2007 9:10 pm

On a previous JAW Bas & Gerda de Bruyn were following our Javelin in their Jup. The Javelin had been suffering from lack of power; but suddenly lept forward with a pop with the Jup behind covered in black fibre glass from the inards of the silencer. For some reason Gerda was carrying a broom; not sure if she is in a coven or is just house proud and uses it on the Jup's carpets. Anyway she was caught on camera poking the broom handle up the Jav's exhaust. Lewd comments ensued.

Bryan Walker · Post by **Bryan Walker** » Sun Jun 03, 2007 9:49 pm

Hi Tony,
The 0.006" is correct for the timing diagram - sliding fit at tdc on fly wheel (see page 43 of instruction book 1931 in gallery) the points on the distributor should begin to open 12mm before tdc measured on flywheel for cars with automatic advance and retard and at tdc (control lever full retard) where manual control is provided.

Bryan

george garside · Post by **george garside** » Mon Jun 04, 2007 10:50 am

sounds to me the popping could be ( but might not be!) down to either the spark occuring whilst the inlet valve is open a bit OR the inlet valve being open a bit when the spark occurs. the former down to the ignition timeing being a bit out & the latter to the valve timing being a bit out. The late Ben Hicks had a very accurate method of timing which was described in a Jowetteer many years ago in detail. I have a copy of thisd somewhere but as yet can't find it as most of my JOwett bumph is still in boxes in teh loft - will keep looking!
george

PAUL BEAUMONT · Post by **PAUL BEAUMONT** » Mon Jun 04, 2007 1:15 pm

Alan, I have followed most of this discussion and I do not recall anyone making the comment that you need to ensure that the timing is set such that it is firing the correct cylinder. I have been caught out with this before!. If someone has messed about with your distributer/dynamo it could be set to fire the wrong cylinder. You need to check that with the engine on TDC, that the rotor arm in the distributer is passing the contact in the cab, as the points open, for the cylinder on the compression stroke - ie with both valves tightly closed (there should be tappet clearance so if you have the spring covers off you should be able to rattle the tappet part that sticks out of the engine a little)The wrong cylinder will have one valve assembly tight.
In my experience a Jowett Twin, given fuel and a spark at the plugs, will fire. it may not run well but it will usually fire. I am worried that your popping may be because the timing is 180 degrees out.

AlanBartlett · Post by **AlanBartlett** » Mon Jun 04, 2007 1:45 pm

So my popping could be effectively tiiming gear is 180s out?

Tony Fearn · Post by **Tony Fearn** » Mon Jun 04, 2007 2:40 pm

Then from the book, when one inlet valve is just about to open, the dizzy should be set so that it is about to fire the opposite cylinder plug just as the points open

.

Paul and Alan (but not Pat as he doesn't seem to want to join "the Army"), perhaps I didn't put it too clearly, and I concur with what Paul says, but there was a reference to ignition timing in my post of Sun 3/6.

As for the question about the DISTRIBUTOR being 180 degrees out, it may be so if you've set the dizzy to fire the cylinder on which the inlet valve is about to open. Check the rotor arm and see which contact in the dizzy cap it's pointing to, then trace the plug lead from the cap to the plug, then read the top quote again.

Seriously though, there's now a great deal of info on this subject above this post, so I suggest Alan goes through it bit by bit and writes all the useful, salient data down in detailed sections so that it will be easy to refer back to.

Without reading all the posts this reminds.......

I have followed most of this discussion......

As you can see even the most cerebral of us haven't remembered all that has been said.

Tony

Keith Andrews · Post by **Keith Andrews** » Mon Jun 04, 2007 10:03 pm

1/ take the spark plug out of the left cyinder
2/put your finger over the hole and turn the engine till u feel pressure.
Now turn the engine till the timing marks on the fly wheel is at the top.
Also check by turning the engine back and forth alittle, that the pist is also at the top...
3/Check the tappets on that cylinder are loose...closed
This is TDC

Take the top of the dizzy, Check for ant SIDEWAYS movment in the dizzy shaft....Checking for worn dizzy...if there is to much movement this effects the timing and pionts and will not fire and or fire incorrectly...
Assuming there is very little ot no movement, we move on

4/Check there is some centrifical movement of the rotor, and it springs back. This is a rough check the centrifical adavance is working.

5/Check the pionts gap.
6/Check the rotor is pionting to the HT lead that goes to the cynlinder with the spark plug out
7/connect a test light to the terminal on the side of the Dizzy, then turn the engine a little, back and forth, thenwhen turning in the opposite direction of the engine direction, till the light just goes out. check that this happens when the fly wheel timing mark is at TDC.
8/Replace cap and rotor, put the spark plug on the end of the HT lead, and earth it...turn the engine back a little, then forward, the plug should spark at TDC.
9/Replace the spark plug.
We have now established compression (finger)and spark...all that leaves is fuel...
10 As the carb is still an unknown factor, spray engine start (ether) down carb 2 to 3 seconds, do not pump or touch the accelerator....
Now fire up the engine....as it intally fires up, work the throttle a little.

AlanBartlett · Post by **AlanBartlett** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 3:34 pm

One step forward two steps back, I've now got some clutch noise, which can only mean that the bolts arnt tight enough, so am going to have to take the engine out again. Does anyone know what size bolts they are that attach the clutch to the fly wheel because those flat screwdriver headed ones just arnt doing the job. Also does the flywheel bearing have to go really close to the flywheel nut which holds it on? or does there have to be a gap?

ian Howell · Post by **ian Howell** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 6:12 pm

Not so much Fred Carno's Army - more Apollo 13!

But it's fun!

Keith Andrews · Post by **Keith Andrews** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 8:04 pm

One step forward two steps back,

Dont let that get to u....
The best guys I know in hot rodding, are those who when young, made every mistake in the book...those same guys now are the most experianced , knowledgeable craftsmen, and have some of the top show/race cars in the country...
The guys who had/have the money to get a shop to do the work, I wouldnt borrow a spanner.

Post by **Forumadmin** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 10:38 pm

The set bolts must be high tensile. Fit with fan washers and Loctite.

PAUL BEAUMONT · Post by **PAUL BEAUMONT** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 1:12 pm

Alan, in my experience clutch noise on a Jowett clutch is usually caused by the toggle levers being incorrectly adjusted. You should be able to check this with everything in place.
From memory the cheese head bolts that you refer to are something like 1/4BSF. I will try to check tonight. Go steady on the locktite - you WILL need them out again one day!!
Again from memory, but I did dismantle one withing the past month, isn't there a large washer between the bearing and the nut?