Morris 1000

[David Morris]

Hi All,

Just wondering if anyone has ever thought of putting a Javelin engine in a Morris 1000? No, the heat hasn't got to me! But when Alec Issigonis originally designed the original Morris 1000 in the mid 1940's ( called the Series MM then ), I believe he intended it to have a flat four engine, hence my question. I understand that he was overruled by the bosses at Morris and had to shoe-horn in a side valve engine, from a pre-war design. Later models, as the 'marriage' between Morris and Austin later became BMC, they inserted the basic 'A' series engine, sourced from Austin.

Looking at the Minor's engine bay shows a lovely wide space, with no suspension components, except the shock absorbers quite high up on the bulkhead. It looks like a Javelin engine would fit? You would need a conversion plate to match the Morris's gearbox to the Javelin engine and, with the Javelin's engine being shorter than the Morris' one, you might have to lengthen the propshaft? Also, you might have to do a serious re-think on the water pump. Electric perhaps? Bearing in mind that the Javelin's water pump is, in my view, a rubbish design?

But you would gain a much better engine. The Morris 1000, and, yes, I have owned one, was pretty underpowered until the 1098cc engine came along and even then some folks have fitted a Metro engine! I can well remember walking behind an early Minor up a mountain pass in Austria, as she ran out of puff and us two chaps let the girls drive her up to the Inn at the top!

Any thoughts?

All the best, David

[Forumadmin]

I recall the same story. Probably easier to go with another flat four such as Subaru.

Someone must have tried it.

https://board.mmoc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?t=9202

[David Kemp]

I have heard of people putting javelin engines in Morris minors,

However easiest,if not the most interesting swap is BMC B series engines. As Morris majors etc are based on minor floor plans it is an easy job.

[Andy Stevens]

The Morris 1098cc engine in its standard form was rated at 48bhp, top speed 77mph, the standard Javelin 50bhp, top speed a couple of mph more, so little would be gained in performance for the amount of work making it fit. The Javelin engine is 34' wide, the Morris engine bay is 32'.

I have never heard of a Jowett engine being put into a Morris. Years ago there was someone in Scotland fitting a Subaru lump in a Javelin - but I don't think it ever made it onto the road.

Fitting a 'B' series engine is not at all easy. There are one or two cars so fitted, but it involves much work - uprating suspension ( due to extra weight), brakes, gearbox etc etc. The most common performance upgrade is fitting a 1275 MG or Marina engine, which fits straight in with minimal work.

The options for upgrading the 'A' series are immense - ( over 10,000,000 'A' series engines were produced) - so much so, you could write a large book about it, which in fact, someone has! Tuning options for the Javelin are much more limited. Excluding race prepared engines, I'm not sure how many more bhp you can easily extract from a Javelin engine?

And is the Javelin engine a much better engine than the 'A' series.....I need convincing!!

[AmilcarJohn]

A Morris Minor (pre-A-Series) was converted to a Javelin engine and raced in the UK in the early 50's. At that date, a Javelin engine was a considerable performance upgrade on the 800cc side valve the Minor came with (62mph). With the Minor shell designed for a flat 4, I imagine it would be fun thing to try. The Minor (at 750kg) has a good weight advantage over the Javelin (962kg) so it would be quite a lively combination. Would be great to see one today - and not an expensive bit of fun to put together. If that isn't enough fun for you, perhaps a replica of the Morarri would be in order?

https://teara.govt.nz/en/photograph/399 ... round-1964

You need to think of the Javelin engine in its period context of the mid-1940's, not compare it with A-series engine development of the 1970's.

[David Morris]

Hi All,

Thanks to Amilcar John for the info. Yes, I was thinking about the original ‘Low Light’ side valve Minors when I originally raised the thread. The early Minor side valve engine was pretty weak, and the Javelin engine would have been an improvement at that stage. I believe the original side valve engine for the Minor was lifted from the pre-war Morris 8's?

I would have liked to have been in the design office when was Alec Issigonis was told to drop his plans for a flat four engine for the Minor. I bet he was not best pleased! I wonder if his ideas even went as far as a prototype engine? At the time of the Minor's development, there were probably early Javelin engines around and Alec might have tried one out as an experiment? We shall probably never know? One of the comparative engines would have been the VW Beetle engine, which at around this time was being resurrected in Germany, with the active support of the occupying British Army.

The immediate post-war years are difficult to imagine now. I was there, as a schoolchild. No sweets, bread just starting to be rationed and basic food on ration cards! Steel for industry was apparently in very short supply, but there seemed to be lots of aluminium, probably from scrapped wartime aircraft! Words like 'Export or Die' focussed the adults!

Today's teenagers would be lost!

All the best,

David