[quote] a 1934 model & the free-wheel only came in with the x braces 1935 model year.[/quote]
George Garside made this point in correspondence about double-declutching, but my 1930 Long Four has a Humfrey Sandburg freewheel fitted.
It appears to be original equipment and I have also seen references to this device in articles in Autocar from the 1920's kindly sent to me by Alan Benewith. There was mention of the device being fitted to the 'fleet' supplied to the Metropolitan Police in 1924?.
Are there possibly two different devices being referred to here?
This is probably not important in the overall scale of things as there seem to be very few surviving examples, but it would be nice to get the history 'straight'.
Free-wheeling
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ian Howell
- Posts: 963
- Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2006 10:46 am
- Your interest in the forum: From 1962 to '63, CA Bradord LLG 125 (Repaired and used).
From 1966 to '67 Black deLuxe Javelin LDF 738 (Scrapped with broken chassis)
From 1967 to '87 Black de Luxe Javelin MKC 1 (later 6469TU). (Sold as non-runner with tons of spares, 1987)
From about 1980 to '87 ex WD Jowett stationary engine. (Sold on)
From 1966 to present, 1930 Long Four Fabric Saloon, Dark Blue / Black.
Taken in a part-repaired state to the 2010 Centenary Rally, returned to a roadworthy state by 2013. - Given Name: Ian
- Location: Eastbourne, East Sussex, England
- Contact:
Free-wheeling
Last edited by ian Howell on Tue Jul 31, 2007 11:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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george garside
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Sorry - I should have made it clear that I was only refering to the 1930's cars and the introduction of the spring operated free wheel in 1935 which as far as I am aware was the first time such a device was used in the thirties. The spring operated free wheel was completely different from the humphrey sandberg which , I think, was introduced around 1927 and was certainly fitted to the Scotland Yard cars.
Does anybody know who made the spring operated device and was it used by any other maker or was it a jowett 'in house' job.
george
Does anybody know who made the spring operated device and was it used by any other maker or was it a jowett 'in house' job.
george
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ian Howell
- Posts: 963
- Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2006 10:46 am
- Your interest in the forum: From 1962 to '63, CA Bradord LLG 125 (Repaired and used).
From 1966 to '67 Black deLuxe Javelin LDF 738 (Scrapped with broken chassis)
From 1967 to '87 Black de Luxe Javelin MKC 1 (later 6469TU). (Sold as non-runner with tons of spares, 1987)
From about 1980 to '87 ex WD Jowett stationary engine. (Sold on)
From 1966 to present, 1930 Long Four Fabric Saloon, Dark Blue / Black.
Taken in a part-repaired state to the 2010 Centenary Rally, returned to a roadworthy state by 2013. - Given Name: Ian
- Location: Eastbourne, East Sussex, England
- Contact:
This looks as if it might get very interesting!
If the 'spring operated freewheel' is what I think it is, a similar device - a spring that tightly encloses two adjacent sleeves, one driven and the other connected to the impeller - fitted in some washing machines.
This is a fairly simple mechanical arrangement and it would not surprise me to find that it was incorporated by Jowetts after their experiences with the Humfrey Sandberg device, and that they probably made them themselves.
Does anyone out there KNOW?
If the 'spring operated freewheel' is what I think it is, a similar device - a spring that tightly encloses two adjacent sleeves, one driven and the other connected to the impeller - fitted in some washing machines.
This is a fairly simple mechanical arrangement and it would not surprise me to find that it was incorporated by Jowetts after their experiences with the Humfrey Sandberg device, and that they probably made them themselves.
Does anyone out there KNOW?
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george garside
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- Location: formby , merseyside
The spring operated free wheel is thus described by Jowets in the handbook for 135 -39 models issued 1952. Aslo in 1935 handbook.
on certain cars in 1935a free wheel unit was provided. This unit is opperated by an expanding spring.The drive from the gearbox is taken througha primary spring to a more powerful square spring expanding into a locking sleeve,which in turn is connecte to a driven sleeve and thence to the propellor shaft.
The effect of the overun is to reverse this opperation. As pressure from the driving sleeve is relaxed the driving spring contracts, breaking the drive between the spring and the locking sleeve.
The freewheelunit is provided with a shift lever which when moved into the fixed position moves the locking sleeve so that its teeth mesh with those on both the driving driven sleeves and so forms a solid drive.'
now the bad news!
" the most likely cause of failure on the freewheel unit is a break between the primary spring and the driving spring. Should this failure occur , the unit can only be operated in fixed position, as no replacement parts are available."
And that in 1952! Are there any cars running with working free wheel and has anybody come up with a cource of springs
george
on certain cars in 1935a free wheel unit was provided. This unit is opperated by an expanding spring.The drive from the gearbox is taken througha primary spring to a more powerful square spring expanding into a locking sleeve,which in turn is connecte to a driven sleeve and thence to the propellor shaft.
The effect of the overun is to reverse this opperation. As pressure from the driving sleeve is relaxed the driving spring contracts, breaking the drive between the spring and the locking sleeve.
The freewheelunit is provided with a shift lever which when moved into the fixed position moves the locking sleeve so that its teeth mesh with those on both the driving driven sleeves and so forms a solid drive.'
now the bad news!
" the most likely cause of failure on the freewheel unit is a break between the primary spring and the driving spring. Should this failure occur , the unit can only be operated in fixed position, as no replacement parts are available."
And that in 1952! Are there any cars running with working free wheel and has anybody come up with a cource of springs
george
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ian Howell
- Posts: 963
- Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2006 10:46 am
- Your interest in the forum: From 1962 to '63, CA Bradord LLG 125 (Repaired and used).
From 1966 to '67 Black deLuxe Javelin LDF 738 (Scrapped with broken chassis)
From 1967 to '87 Black de Luxe Javelin MKC 1 (later 6469TU). (Sold as non-runner with tons of spares, 1987)
From about 1980 to '87 ex WD Jowett stationary engine. (Sold on)
From 1966 to present, 1930 Long Four Fabric Saloon, Dark Blue / Black.
Taken in a part-repaired state to the 2010 Centenary Rally, returned to a roadworthy state by 2013. - Given Name: Ian
- Location: Eastbourne, East Sussex, England
- Contact:
Is there anyone with a NON-WORKING spring-type freewheel?
If there is, then I am sure that replacements springs would not be an insuperable problem. It might be relatively expensive, but there are a number of specialist spring makers who would produce a limited batch.
When I worked for a Defence contractor some time ago, we often had small batches of experimental springs made.
I suspect that the springs for the freewheel are 'square' section wire and close wound.
That would not be too difficult for any reasonable workshop although tempering might be interesting!
But first - does anyone NEED a spring?
If there is, then I am sure that replacements springs would not be an insuperable problem. It might be relatively expensive, but there are a number of specialist spring makers who would produce a limited batch.
When I worked for a Defence contractor some time ago, we often had small batches of experimental springs made.
I suspect that the springs for the freewheel are 'square' section wire and close wound.
That would not be too difficult for any reasonable workshop although tempering might be interesting!
But first - does anyone NEED a spring?