Jowett Technical Weekend

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Keith Clements
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Jowett Technical Weekend

Post by Keith Clements »

Jowett Technical Weekend at the Jowett Health and Beauty Centre
Plans are coming together at last to have a day for people to visit the JH&BC in Kings Langley. It seems likely it will be in July or August. So any suggestions for dates would be welcome.
Please contact me if you would like to come so we can choose a mutually convenient date.

There are over 94 JCC members within 60 miles and quite a few more (only) JOAC members.

What we will be working on in July is debatable but is likely to be something on the Bradford and the Javelin. Perhaps some engine tuning on both!
I have yet to tackle rebuilding a Javelin steering box, so if I do not get around to it before then that will be a job.
If you have something we could work on then let us know. We could consider jobs you particularly want to see also.

The main intention is to get some Jowett people together and have a chat to pass on some knowledge to our younger members. If some of us get our hands dirty, then all the better.

We might even have a go at a Skype or webcam conference!

Facilities available include:
2 post lift
Grit and soda blasting
Parts washing
Mill and lathe.
Tig, Mig and Spot welding.
Metal forming
Tools and benches for assembly, wood, metal and electrical.
Engine assembly stand.
Engine test bed.
Engine diagnostic equipment
Paint spraying.



If you have turning or milling experience then now is your opportunity to pass on some skills. We should be able to find some tasks to do on the tools available.


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Re: Jowett Technical Weekend

Post by Keith Clements »

On Saturday we looked at distributor set up and spent a little time trying to find the timing disc template in the Jowett Gallery. Here is the timing disc link. Technical Weekend
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Distibutor drive position.

Post by Keith Clements »

From Craig Ainge.
Hello Keith
Firstly thank you all for a brilliant workshop day on Saturday 19th July.
Following on from your work with the distributors I came across this item is the Javelin Technical Information edited by Bob Jones [East Anglia] 2001 where on page 40 is the following -
Service Bulletin Item No. l7 November 1953 - DM2 Distributor
When the DM2 type distributor is fitted to an engine it is pointed out that the off set keyway in the oil pump drive spindle should be in the position shown in Fig. 33, with No.1 piston on T.D.C. firing stroke.
The position of the offset keyway with No.1 piston on T.D.C. firing stroke shown Fig. 31 Page 30 of the Javelin and Jupiter Maintenance Manual shows the position when the DKY H4A type Distributor only is to be fitted.

Further References - Jowetteer Jan.1970 P.10 extract from letter by Col.A.Hicks:-

It may help other members to know that Lucas can provide a ‘B90 exchange” Distributor of the latest “25D4” type (instead of the old DM2) to fit the Javelin. The Lucas Part No. is 40795.



IT LOOKS VERY MUCH LIKE AN ONGOING SAGA…
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Re: Jowett Technical Weekend

Post by Jack »

Some photos from the weekend now in the Gallery from Craig & Glenys Ainge and a couple from my dodgy phone camera!

The Saturday Team:

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Paul Beaumont hard at work on the Bradford - I think this is part of replacing the rear axle felt seal, which turned out to be quite a job getting the bearing pressed out but experience definitely proved a valuable asset:

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Here I am interfering with things, there were so many little moments through the weekend where Paul B, Ray, Paul R, and many others would share a little tip or their experience of some aspect of Bradford restoration, a supplier for a particular part, or who to call for help with a problem - we will endeavour to write down as many as we can while we remember them.

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Next garage weekend I am going to set up the Gopro on time lapse. A photo every 30 seconds would make quite a fun little video and reflect the sheer amount that got done over the time we had.

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Re: Jowett Technical Weekend

Post by Jack »

On Sunday Paul and Sue Rennie came along with some very interesting Bradford bits - mine has a split pin through the end of this fitting, but this is clearly designed to stop the end cap from unwinding. Do we know if the split pin is original, or perhaps is a modification on later models?

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Paul B illustrating the advantages of having a lift available to make working height comfortable - this could be your Bradford, Jowett, Jupiter or Prewar car at the next Technical Weekend! Paul managed what I couldn't and got the front shoes fitted without firing two springs at some speed across the garage followed by a lot of swearing.

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And Ray positively volunteered to spend quite a long time in the back of the Bradford undoing the screws so that we could remove the old floorboard. GIven the temperatures this was quite a sacrifice for the benefit of the old Bradford - at one stage I realised that we had Ray inside, Paul working on the brakes, me and Amy cleaning and fixing the leaf springs, all at the same time!!!

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You can tell which are the Ainge photos because they are the good ones :)

Jack.
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Re: Jowett Technical Weekend

Post by Keith Clements »

Talking of the GoPro , I had thought about rigging up the web cam and Skype conference facility (as we did at a Jowett Weekend a few years back). The Jowett Health and Beauty Centre is 'web enabled' so that those in the far reaches of our globe could partake.

We may get a bit more organised next time with a program of action, but that does need people to tell me when they will be here and what they would like to be doing. We managed two 8 hour days last time representing about 87 man/woman hours in total (excluding mealtimes that is, where both technical and social conversation took place), fixing brakes on four cars, putting new distibutor and checking compression, tappets and timing on one, welding and panel making on two cars, fitting rear suspension on Bradford and doing a health check on a Jup and fixing three problems with one left to do next time ( welding rear chassis tube).

YOU may think your brakes are fine, but I bet Amy can find a problem or two with them. Ask Peter Tribble.
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Re: Jowett Technical Weekend

Post by Amy »

Well, think my fingernails have just about recovered from the weekend...

I learned a lot about dizzy setup (thanks Dad!), ate a lot of cake and realised that I am able to put into practice a lot of the brake knowledge that I learned at Nigel's the other week. Oh, and that I am capable of attaching brake shoes to a Jowett without firing springs across the workshop, can be trusted with other peoples' Jupiters and that being sat in a car atop the two post lift is less than pleasant...

Image
1954 SC Jupiter, TTD 88
1990 Mk1 Mazda Eunos Roadster
1980 Bedford CF Camper

Who said heel-and-toeing wasn't possible in stilettos...?
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Re: Jowett Technical Weekend

Post by Jack »

Amy wrote:Well, think my fingernails have just about recovered from the weekend...

I learned a lot about dizzy setup (thanks Dad!), ate a lot of cake and realised that I am able to put into practice a lot of the brake knowledge that I learned at Nigel's the other week. Oh, and that I am capable of attaching brake shoes to a Jowett without firing springs across the workshop, can be trusted with other peoples' Jupiters and that being sat in a car atop the two post lift is less than pleasant...

Image
The link to the pic doesn't seem to work, assuming it isn't just me.

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Jowett Technical Day Number 2

Post by Forumadmin »

The diagnostic kit was brought into action at Geoff Jones' in Tylers Green, Bucks whose long Jupiter restoration project had suffered a stall due to engine problems. At Bill Lock's 70th it was decided to have a team effort, so Richard Gane, Bill Lock (transported by Diana) and myself started with ignition timing. Anyhow suffice to say we found, the timing to be 180 deg out, two spark plugs (of course they were Champion) not functioning, and tappets incorrectly adjusted. Then the distributor was found to be unstable (so was swapped) and finally one carb was found to be not functioning properly. The latter has been left to fix for another day.

I hope people have learnt that a methodical approach is necessary.


There is probably no set way to approach such a situation with people saying the car ran, and I think it is valve timing. Basically, listen and remember, but do not let it alter a systematic approach.

In this case, we checked to see we had a spark at No 1 plug that had been removed, that this occurred at TDC ( by using a flexible probe down a cylinder and feeling for TDC, and making sure this TDC occurred when No 1 cylinder was on its firing stroke with both valves closed (by removing rocker cover).) The TDC was double checked with the mark on the flywheel. We failed first time round to check that a spark occured on all four plugs when they were removed. Even this is no guarantee that a spark will occur at cylinder compression, but in this case it showed that two of the infamous Champion plugs failed even on this simple test. Do not assume a new plug is a working plug.

However, the cylinder compression test revealed one cylinder down on compression (90 psi) and this was fixed by adjusting the tappets which had been done using the old method in the manual and not using the method that superceeded it ( adjust valve when opposite valve is fully open) e.g (No1 inlet when No2 inlet open). In most cases the valve opening was over twice what it should be as the valves had been adjusted using the old method. After adjustment all cylinders were within 5 psi of 120 psi. Valve timing was not checked as eventually we decided the initial pops and farts and loud bangs were ignition timing.

The car then ran after a few more swaps of the order of the ignition leads, although not smoothly and a timing light revealed a wayward distributor, caused either by worn bearings or worn mechanical advance. So the dizzie was changed, not easy as the drive shaft needed changing and the 'stupid' 90 deg ignition leads needed unscrewing. I always use a plug-in vertical cap, better water insulation and easy changing of firing order. Care is needed to make sure that NO 1 lead is going to the correct terminal , alignment can be deceptive. Also make sure your rotor arm is fitted!!! Static timing was checked on contact breaker

The car now ran better but still would not accelerate, vacuum advance did not seem to be working but that was not the cause. By putting one hand over one carb inlet, we discovered the car ran better on one carb. Probably a main jet or bowl gasket failure. Something for next time. We had blown out the bowls and checked the jets previously, so some spare bowls or a spare carb will be pressed into service next time.

Here is Richard contemplating the next move.
20140806_145318 - Copy (800x499).jpg
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Another Jowett on the road

Post by Keith Clements »

A 3rd technical day was organised , again at Geoff Jones place in Tylers Green, with Bill Lock and Keith Clements finally helping Geoff get the car on the road. On the last visit , Richard Gane (and I) thought the problem was with the offside carb so I brought three carbs with me! The engine fired immediately on what appeared to be one cylinder and eventually after some EasyStart on perhaps one and a half. The carb bowl, first on one side and then the other and then both were changed. Since all had been checked at the previous visit I was very reluctant to change anything else. So I rechecked the timing with my new timing gun. Did not seem to be the problem and was giving a good spark for the gun. Eventually Bill convinced me to changed the plugs again.Only one of the plugs in the engine seemed to have been firing, No 1 the one with the timing gun on it! So a new set of NGK were put in. The car fired up on all four cylinders immediately and ran reasonably evenly. Remember the plugs in there had been tested on the last visit! Now three were failing. So all in the bin.

The carb bowls were replaced and the idle jets and throttle linkage adjusted. The car was taken out for a test run. It did give a few back fires and misfires initially but after a mile had sorted itself out.

So another Jowett on the road, and this had been a long saga taking more than 3 years. Hopefully Geoff will be coming to see me later in the week for a bit more tuning.
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Re: Jowett Technical evening and afternoon.

Post by Keith Clements »

There will be a technical evening on Thursday 14th April from 15:00 to 21:00hrs and a technical afternoon on Sunday 17th April from 14:00 hrs to 18:00hrs at the Kings Langley Jowett Health and Beauty Clinic.

The sessions will focus on the inspection of a Javelin steering box and the replacement of the oil seal. This procedure is very seldom performed. It is the one thing I have never done on a Javelin and every box I know leaks! After all the seals are 60 years old. I will however be assisted by Bill Lock who will bring along some parts so we learn how the assembly is supposed to work. Hopefully others will come along to help and get their hands dirty. So bring your overalls as these boxes can be messy.

The procedure will involve accurate drilling on the milling machine, a lot of cleaning, riveting the sections back together and possibly some welding.

The work will probably be a distraction for the natter and noggin that will accompany the two sessions. So please let Keith Clements know if and when you want to come along by email, PM or phone . (Address - front cover Jowetteer)
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Re: Jowett Technical Session

Post by Keith Clements »

We should get some interesting discussion at the technical session next Thursday (14th April) and Sunday (17th April). Please contact me if you would like to come.
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Re: Jowett Technical |Evening 14th April

Post by Keith Clements »

Bob Wall, Daniel Bangham and Bill Lock arrived between 3 and 4 and we set to work cleaning the encrusted steering boxes, dismantling and then cleaning in the parts washer.
:idea: Please click thumbnail for better image.
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Bill removing road grime.
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Bob undoing the six 3/16 nuts that are peened to hold the shaft support to the casing. Care needed as one (of the 54) shared. We will use Loctite on reassembly.
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Daniel doing the first degrease.
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The shaft, box of bits and casing ready for grinding and case splitting.
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We then designed the holding system so that we could drill out the spot welds. Prior to drilling, the seam weld along the edge of the casing was ground off until you could just see the two plates of steel that had been joined.
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The seven heads of the rivets holding the arm to the rack were also ground off.
This shows the rack after one rivet was driven out with a punch when the rest obligingly slipped apart when the next rivet was punched.
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After the spot welds were drilled out (not using a proper tool ) but a short drill made by Daniel, the case was split using a sheath knife (that I think I have had since I was 12) and a hammer.
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The goo inside was then cleaned out and the parts examined.
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The bearing surface for the oil seal.
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Comparison of worn and new cone. New cones available from Bill!
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The team with the 9 dismantled boxes.
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We still have 5 to split.
Currently trying to source 6x22mm countersunk steel rivets to replace those ground down.

Continuing Sunday at 14:00 so contact me if you intend to come.
Last edited by Keith Clements on Fri Apr 15, 2016 5:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Jowett Technical Weekend

Post by Srenner »

Wish I were there! When I popped my steering box apart, I threaded the rivet holes in the rack and had a machine shop "spot face" the holes in the arm. The concept was that having a flat surface on the arm would allow the allen head bolt to seat properly and clamp the formerly riveted parts together. Unfortunately, the machine shop had a "better idea" on the arm and rendered it all useless. Still think it is a valid way to re-assemble and make it serviceable in the future.

Have fun!
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Re: Jowett Technical Weekend

Post by Srenner »

Forgot to mention that I have a few NOS intermediate steering arm 50547. As there are so few Javelins here, and even fewer that get driven (3 at last count), if anyone needs one, just drop me a line. Cheers.
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