Jowett Colours

[TimKelly]

21 possible javelin and Jupiter original colours.
UPDATE TO THE MOST RECENT COMPILATION OF JOWETT PAINT MIXING FORMULAS - SEE XLS File

Jowett Colours - Version 1-D.xlsx

Jowett Colours - Original Names, Codes and Some Formulas

(736.13 KiB) Downloaded 107 times

Hello
To introduce myself I am Tim Kelly from South Australia. I do my best to look after a dozen or so Jowett cars and I am looking for a consistent way to maintain colour integrity for my cars and for those that would like to maintain colour integrity in a consistent way.

Whenever seeking to paint a car I have always had to resist the paint sales person persuading me to select a different 'close' colour, and then eye match. Everyones eye match is different and there is now a huge variation between same colours.

The attachment Jowett Rainbow.jpg is no longer available

I have searched the web but can't find an ICI Colour Chip Guide for Jowetts. I am also aware that some of the Australian and New Zealand JKD Jowetts used different local colours. I saw the Javelin paint colour codes in the Technical Notes document , but would like to find out what the tinter percentages were, so that I can reproduce, adjust (given any changes to tinter formulations) and record the full colour range. This could then be accessed by all members if this has not already been done. If such a list has been compiled, I would be very keen to have access.

Previously in the Technical Guide I have seen the ICI colour codes listed for UK Javelins as follows, but don't have original tinter proportions (or later ICI equivalents).

Sage Green P030 - 25
Connaught Green P030 - 97
Tampico Beige P030 - 5057 [as per attached photo of the 1951 Jowett Javelin]
Maroon P030 - 2185
British Racing Green P030 - 8120
Ivory P030 - 32
Illation Red P030 - 37
Golden Sand P030 - 2002
Bottle Green Metallic P031 - 2051
Rich Maroon Metallic P031 - 2194
Tampico Beige Metallic P031 - 2147
Athena Grey Metallic P031 - 2111
Copper Metallic P031 - 2124
British Racing Green Metallic P03l - 2291
Turquoise Blue Metallic P031 - 2217.

Which cars in the photo are not Jowett colours?

I don't have any Jupiter ( other than Copper Metallic listed above) or Bradford colour codes.

I have a metallic light green Australian 1952 JKD PE Jowett Javelin that I would like to start work on soon so any help for this one would be appreciated.

Kind regards
Tim Kelly

[Forumadmin]

Moved from JT tips

[Forumadmin]

I think Jack or Amy took some paint to a place in Uxbridge that might have such info. Chris?

[David Kemp]

Thanks I always wondered if Jowett used metallic colours , seen many with it & they look good.

[TimKelly]

For David and others,
Athena Grey used on Javelins seemed to be the most frequently used metallic colour and Copper metallic for Jupiters. I have an Australian completed JKD Javelin that is a gold metallic colour in addition to the green metallic JKD Javelin.

As for the others however, I have not yet seen Javelins with areas showing original Bottle Green Metallic, Rich Maroon Metallic, Tampico Beige Metallic, British Racing Green Metallic or Turquoise Blue Metallic (unless this is the colour of our green JKD Jav). From the brochures I am assuming that the metallic colour range was extended in 1952 and 53.

Many thanks for the responses so far.
TK

[Jack]

I think Jack or Amy took some paint to a place in Uxbridge that might have such info. Chris?

I did make a trip to a very good paint supplier, but they were matching the existing paint instead of working from a colour chart or official paint code etc. We went through an awful lot of different books from different companies (I don't really know how it works but we compared the colour against the already painted section I had with me) and we found what seemed to be an exact match though the colour had to be mixed for me in the shop.

Interesting that Amy attempted the same and there was a small but visible difference, so this seems to be a bit of a complex business. I would think that it is certainly worth trying to get official paint codes for the cars even if they are the closest available match from the current ranges.

Jack.

[Tony Fearn]

Perhaps a request through the Jowetteer mag. will elicit a response.
Somewhere, someone might just have what you're looking for.

Tony.

[Nick Webster]

Interesting that the given list shows Tampico Beige and Tampico Beige metallic. I can remember once reading in the Jowetteer an opinion that Golden Sand was the metallic version of Tampico beige. This then is perhaps not so, although perhaps they were similar and one replaced the other for some reason; supply or perhaps just looked slightly better. I notice also that Illation Red is on the list. I cannot visualise any Javelins I have seen in an original red (not maroon) and would speculate that this is a Jupiter colour. I have driven Google to an inch of its life searching for ICI paint codes and have not yet turned up any other car manufacturer that used the self same codes although the names do repeat - Connaught Green being especially confused with Dark Brunswick and British Racing Green. Slightly surprisingly, even something that one might presume as pretty specific to Jowett, Tampico Beige, is another colour name widely used but with several different interpretations depending on the vehicle manufacturer.

Nick Webster

[TimKelly]

Thanks Nick,
I agree on reflection that Illation Red is probably the Jupiter Red. I have only seen the Maroon colour on Javelins (as original paint), no other shades of red. I have written to Akzonobel for the paint tinter proportions (The company that purchased ICI) and received an automated response but no further reply.

Lotus list the same number for British Racing Green (although there are several others as well) so I am pretty sure that we could get the tinter proportions for that one but it would be better to get the lot.

Tampico beige seems to be a popular colour in the USA during the 1930s but I agree that this would be a different formula.
TK

[TimKelly]

Still looking for mixing formulas to match the codes. I attach a PDF snapshot of the ICI and BALM paint colours as I understand them to be. I May have some wrong and I would be interested in the ones that are missing such as the turquoise blue. Whilst I have seen turquoise blue javelins, I have never been sure if these were the original paint or matched to the original paint.

[Robin Fairservice]

Page 215 of "The Complete Jowett History" lists the Javelin colours. The Jupiter colours are on page 216.

Javelins:
1948/9: Light Grey, Pale Beige, Black, but your 1949 is a light Green!
1949/50: Black, Turquoise (or Maroon), Metallic Grey (Athena Grey?)
1950/1: as above, and Connaught Green, Tampico Beige.
1951/2: Black, Golden Sand metallic, Gunmetal Grey metallic, Maroon Metallic.
1953: ?as for 1952.

[TimKelly]

I am pleased to say that PPG have found a mixing formula for Tampico Beige under Jowett as a fleet colour.
The PPG Paint code is P420 -5057 (from 1992) and the last four numbers align with the initial ICI Code of P030 - 5057 and the last four numbers of the BALM Paints code of 253-5057.
The tinters look right and my next step will be to mix a litre of paint and compare this with an original car colour sample. I have updated the PDF document to show. Very impressed with the efforts made by PPG UK & Ireland Customer Services in seeking to assist.

[jowettgeoff]

Here are the mixing formulae for some of the Jowett colours, as supplied to NE Section member Dave McLauchlan some years ago. Dave had a contact who worked for ICI. . Whether any of the BS codes can still be identified is another matter - but some paint shops may know how to interpret them! The first number is the BS code (usually PO 030), followed by the tint code. eg P030 9903 is shown here as just 9903 (to save typing!). The second figure is the weight in grams per litre of paint. Strangely the total weight is not the same for each colour, so I wonder if the 1litre volume is achieved by adding thinner? It would be interesting to hear if the following makes any sense to an expert paintshop.

British Racing Green.
9962-619.5. 9905-861.2. 9903-1039.1. 9900-1046.4.

Connaught Green.
9903-374.7 9964-534.5 9905-1010.

Italian Red.
9943-620.2 9976-919.9 9900-951.6 P0629903RT-989.2.

Ivory
9900-1013.5 9989-1032.5 9903RT-1046.2 9915RT-1053.6

Tampico Beige Metallic
9900-489 9999-167.2 9964-197.5 9915-484.1 9982-377.5 9946-449.9 9949-458.7 P017404-978

Athena Grey
P017 404-485.8 9999-608.2 9930-689.8 9915-715.1 9903-944.4 9905-971.6

Black
9903 591.5 9914-985.8

British Racing Green Metallic
9995-12.7 9999-32.2 9903-77.1 9905-190.3 9982-470.3 9900-487.9 P017 404- 975.7

Tampico Beige (solid)
9900-590.1 9903-737.1 9964-931.4 9915-1050.1

I'm pretty sure that some of the Jowett colours were subsequently used by British Leyland. For instance, I had some aerosols of Rover Connaught Green made up for my Javelin, and the match is perfect. Morris Minor Ivory might be another example. Landrover Ivory certainly seems to be a perfect match on my Jup.

G McA

[Chris Spencer]

In response to Geoff's posting regarding the tint codes etc - I spent several years working in a couple of restoration workshops and short spell at a main dealers - albeit many years ago - the larger bodyshops / workshops mixed their own paint to a given manufactures formula - so a bank of tinters were held in stock (50 +) in later years these were racked on shelves - the lid came off the tinter and a paddle mixing lid went back on - this in turn was placed to the rack and when switched on the bank of tinter paddles within the tins were turned by a motor which drove connection spigots on the rack to paddle drives on the mixing lid - so switched on you let it mix away whilst you looked the paint formula up - originally in printed form you matched the paint code on the vehicle to the paint code in the book, in later years the formula was looked up on a microfiche - you then zeroed the balance scales with your empty tin on it and started adding the tinters - the paddle mixing lids had a spout with a sprung leaver flap on them but you needed a steady hand not to over tint - or under tint come to that - the list that Geoff provides indicates the tinter code and then volume you filled the can in weight to required amount then added the next tinter - the reading given on the second tinter is the total amount of paint in the tin - so it added the weight consecutively - depending on amount of tinters required / depth of colour you would end up with slightly less / or more than the litre - it was never rounded up / down to the exact litre.

In later years colour matching became a real headache - metallics were all the rage and vehicle manufactures were using several paint manufactures to supply batches of paint by volume - along with some tinters being reformulated over the years this resulted in several variants of the same colour and were painful to match if just painting a single panel - I have seen a vehicle arrive for a wing to be painted and we ended up painting all the front panels and most of the way down one side to get a colour match.

Different manufactures did indeed use the same colours - just gave them new name so Jowett British Racing Green Metallic is identical to Jaguar Opalescent British Racing Green and many others can be found to match other manufactures.

Today it's all very easy - no variation books - no codes to look up - every decent bodyshop has a spectrometer - linked back to a computer which indicates the closest formula - the paints are now largely water based - the scales digital - just the finishing lacquers that are a two pack system - a far cry from old days.

[jowettgeoff]

Ah yes Chris - that makes sense, as the amounts increase progressively. The spectrometer is indeed a very fine device for matching existing colours, but I guess for a perfectionist who wants to recreate the original colour for a total respray, it won't give quite the right result. I remember many years ago replacing a Javelin front wing for an old chap who'd run into something more solid than his Javelin. The local paintshop produced a can of genuine ICI Tampico Beige Metallic, but the match with the existing paintwork wasn't quite spot on. Yet my Connaught green Jav that I mentioned 'touching up' matched perfectly (to my eyes). This car had had a full respray over 20 years ago however using 'two pack', so perhaps cellulose fades rather more than modern brews. And does anyone remember that lovely 'Valspar' paint (for hand brushing)? A chap near me painted his Javelin with it (many years ago), and the result from 20 yards away was quite respectable. (Well - OK - 50 yards away!). I used it on my first car (a 1938 BSA Scout), and as a teenager was highly proud of its new grey over maroon livery. (Nowt to do with Jowetts - sorry forumadmin, just reminiscing!) .
G McA