Seat Belts in a Javelin

[David Morris]

Hi there,

Some of you may have seen the article in February's Classic Monthly on our Javelin and the Lancia Aprilla. Since the article appeared I have been contacted by a Jowett member, regarding the fitting of the front seat belts to our Javelin.

This was via email and I have responded back with some notes on the fitment and accompanying photos.

I realise that many of you might like to see my comments here on JowettTalk or even in Gallery, but I am afraid the hassle of downsizing the photos and then struggling with attachments is just too much for me at the moment. Unless there is a really simple way of attaching my email here??

However, I would gladly forward my email response that I have already made to any member who might be interested. My email details are in the membership list.

All the best,

David

[Moises Jr.]

Hi David.

For me it would not be a problem posting photos attached to the message, you can forward it to moises.escola@gmail.com

As I understand in Spain is legal not to wear seat belts when in the car factory. Another serious thing for them or fixing security issues in sporty driving.

Saludos!

[David Morris]

Hi Moises,

I have sent you an email with the photos and do hope this is useful? You are doing a great job with your Javelin!

All the best,

David

[Moises Jr.]

This is the photographs by David.

[Moises Jr.]

More seat belts pictures.

[David Morris]

Dear Moises,

Thank you very much! That's very kind of you. Jack had offered as well and my thanks to you both.

I did put some description of the seat belt installation in the email, and I will add this below in a bit!

Many thanks,

David

[Robin Fairservice]

I would like to put seat belts into my Javelin, but as a civil engineer, I am very concerned about the Javelin's structural ability to take the loads that would be imposed by the seat belt anchors, particularly any anchors into the door pillars. If I installed them, and a later owner was in a heavy crash, I would probably be sued if they failed. Is there a structural engineer in the club who would be prepared to do the relevant analysis?

[David Morris]

Hi Robin,

This has always been a worry for me too. I have been nervous about giving any advice on fitting seat belts in Javelins, and I must advise anyone who does something along the lines of my installation that they should seek their own independent professional advice as to the safety of the installation.

However, having made that disclaimer, I suggest that any belt is better than none at all. Yes, the weak point is the 'B' post anchorage but if that fails in a accident, then at least you should have the lap belt to hold the lower part of the body?

My wife, as my passenger, was saved from falling out of the car when her door in our Javelin flew open whilst we were in motion last year, so the belt here has already saved a life!

I hope this helps,

David

[Forumadmin]

The door pillars on a Javelin with no rust are strong enough. The metal should be much thicker than the paper thin stuff they use on modern cars. But that said, make sure you spread the load with a thick plate and check that there is no rust. OK very modern cars have to pass impact tests, but the 70s ones did not.
Regarding liability, the option is to have no seat belts, so offer your passengers the choice. I know , if fitted they have to wear them , and if fitted they must be fit for purpose. H&S again.
The racing boys have to have seat belts and they have to pass scrutineering. The scrutineers look at the ancorage points and the structural stability of the frame. I think they assume the chassis/body can withstand the forces.

[Jack]

I would like to put seat belts into my Javelin, but as a civil engineer, I am very concerned about the Javelin's structural ability to take the loads that would be imposed by the seat belt anchors, particularly any anchors into the door pillars. If I installed them, and a later owner was in a heavy crash, I would probably be sued if they failed. Is there a structural engineer in the club who would be prepared to do the relevant analysis?

Simple solution is to just remove them when sold, and leave a little bag with seatbelts for the new owner. If they fit them, their problem. If they don't, the car is as it left the factory.

Not such an issue now, but the UK MOT test has some fairly strict rules about seatbelts, which means that one could (quite reasonably) use a passed MOT with the seatbelts in place as proof of them being theoretically safe.

Personally having seen the strength of the door pillar, I would expect that any serious accident would likely cause it to deform and that is probably going to result in major repairs. But then if you've had an accident that significant I would expect the car to need quite a bit of work anyhow! What it probably will do is prevent passengers from going through the windscreen, which (for anyone that remembers the kind of accidents that seemed to be far too common before seatbelts were mandatory) always sounded fairly horrendous.

The serious solution perhaps for those who are using their cars a lot on higher speed roads is to fit a rollcage inside the car and attach the seatbelts/harness to this. No easy way of hiding this however, and the supports may affect getting in and out, so probably one for those racing and rallying but for day to day use might be overkill.

Many owners will not be driving their cars at 70mph on the motorway, when used will often be travelling at lower speeds, and we have to hope that any accident as a result is going to be fairly minor, the seatbelt really acting as a brace for occupants. Personally I'd fit a seatbelt to stop me sliding about, on harder right hand bends I can find myself moving gradually over to the left depending on my choice of trousers! Also as in David's case, the seatbelt on the SC has certainly saved me, the door opened on a left hand bend a while back, I just reached across and closed it again - without a seatbelt it might have been a lot more serious.

Jack.

[David Kemp]

I have not got the gents address but in Brendale, Brisbane QLD, he fits enertial reel seat belts to Javelins for $1200.00 AUS . this is front & back with choice of colour. His work passes our Qld transport tests & he fixes a modification plate to your Javelin, making the belts legal hence not your problem if they fail.I would expect someone in UK, USA, Canada, Spain, Denmark or any other 1st world country with beaurocrats to pay would have a similar service.Is $1200.00 too much? I think it is cheap if you value your life, or the life of your loved ones.Originality is only fine in museums.

[robert lintott]

In the monthly magazines there are several companies who offer seat belt supply and fit for classic cars , There was a report in a recent Classic Cars of fitting seat belts in the Editors MG Magnette ZB . I have emailed one of them, "Quickfit" to ask if they have a design for a Javelin . As for strength , even in a new car there is no guarantee a seat belt will prevent injury or death , it is just that the risk is reduced . The same goes for classics although there is a higher risk if the attachments are not well designed or the metal is weak. Even so any seat belt should be better than none .

One issue is the height of the attachment on the door pillar . I have heard injuries can occur if the belt is say too high and does not fit well--whatever that means --over the shoulder . On cars like the Javelin the semaphore indicator may be in the way , although one of the suppliers I found on the internet "Klippan" seem to attach the belt to the inner metal skin not bolted through to the outside .

Any experience of these suppliers ? I was very impressed with David Morris' design ! Bob