I have no intention of setting fear into all of you Javelin owners but based on actual findings over the last 24 hours could I suggest that you all have a good look at your steering box mountings - ideally you either need to get the car on to a lift or over a pit to view the area in question.
I (and several others) are currently restoring Peter Pfisters Javelin - on dismantling this roadworthy car (passed a New Zealand WOF in 2010 and a strict Swiss MOT in 2011) we became aware that the inner bracket to the steering box had fractured - it was evident that this was old damage and had been overlooked on both the vehicle inspections undertaken in previous years
It just happened that Keith Clements very well kept Javelin was in the workshop and up on the two post lift - so I used Keith's car to observe the shape of the bracket - only to find that this had also fractured in the identical location Now this could be pure coincidence - but I would not forgive myself if I said nothing and then heard that a member had lost his / her steering whilst driving their car. Could anyone that finds the same defect please contact me - either by the forum / phone / e mail / whatever - as if it is a more widespread problem then we really ought to be issuing a techinal inprovement bullitan to our non forum members.
There is a detailed repair process for this area listed on page 6 of the forum under 'Javlein' & titled 'Early Javelin Restoration' (http://jowett.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f ... 2&start=75) - However this is on a bodyshell with all mechanical assemblies removed - looking at Keith's car this evening even on a vehicle lift - it will be very difficult to effect a good repair with the engine & gearbox in place - and has we finished for the day both Keith & myself drew the conclusion that it would be quicker to remove the engine & gearbox in order to undertake a good quality repair.
URGENT JAVELIN STEERING BOX MOUNTING CHECKS
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Chris Spencer
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URGENT JAVELIN STEERING BOX MOUNTING CHECKS
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37 Jowett 8 HP - In many parts
52 Javelin Std 'Taxi Livery'
52 Javelin Std Patina project
52 Javelin Std Sports project
52 Jupiter SA - Original car - full restoration project
52 Javelin Std 'Taxi Livery'
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52 Javelin Std Sports project
52 Jupiter SA - Original car - full restoration project
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David Morris
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Re: URGENT JAVELIN STEERING BOX MOUNTING CHECKS
Dear Chris,
Many thanks for your thought-provoking post. I took time today to get under our two Javelins and the resultant photos are attached. From what I can see, I think the brackets on these two vehicles are ok, but I was very grateful for your advice. I found that it is a very difficult place on the car to see properly, and used the camera as my 'eyes'. No wonder it had not been found during the MoTs on Peter's and Keith's cars!
Whilst under the cars, I had a look at the steering idler brackets on the N/S of the two cars. All seemed ok here too. However, I know I have an old steering box where the cast part or the box is totally fractured in two! I suspect that if the car has a severe 'bump' on the front wheels, then this force transmits to either the steering idler mounting or the steering box and its mounting. Hence, perhaps, the problems you have found.
By the way, I was left wondering why Jowett's spent time making the bodyshell suit either RH or LH drive ( the steering column mounting brackets under the dash board and the glove box/ instrument panel come to mind as just two examples) and then came up with different brackets welded tothe body shell for the steering box and the steering idler? Odd?
Anyway, many thanks for the 'heads up'. Very timely and worth doing by every Javelin owner! You will probably need to clear awy some of the old grease here...it's a very greasy area!
All the best,
David
PS. Keith's rubber shroud on his steering box looks strange in your photo? It should be a hooded shape. Has it been forced upwards by a bump in the past? I believe there is a big spring and nut beneath the rubber shroud, similar to that on the steering idler?
Many thanks for your thought-provoking post. I took time today to get under our two Javelins and the resultant photos are attached. From what I can see, I think the brackets on these two vehicles are ok, but I was very grateful for your advice. I found that it is a very difficult place on the car to see properly, and used the camera as my 'eyes'. No wonder it had not been found during the MoTs on Peter's and Keith's cars!
Whilst under the cars, I had a look at the steering idler brackets on the N/S of the two cars. All seemed ok here too. However, I know I have an old steering box where the cast part or the box is totally fractured in two! I suspect that if the car has a severe 'bump' on the front wheels, then this force transmits to either the steering idler mounting or the steering box and its mounting. Hence, perhaps, the problems you have found.
By the way, I was left wondering why Jowett's spent time making the bodyshell suit either RH or LH drive ( the steering column mounting brackets under the dash board and the glove box/ instrument panel come to mind as just two examples) and then came up with different brackets welded tothe body shell for the steering box and the steering idler? Odd?
Anyway, many thanks for the 'heads up'. Very timely and worth doing by every Javelin owner! You will probably need to clear awy some of the old grease here...it's a very greasy area!
All the best,
David
PS. Keith's rubber shroud on his steering box looks strange in your photo? It should be a hooded shape. Has it been forced upwards by a bump in the past? I believe there is a big spring and nut beneath the rubber shroud, similar to that on the steering idler?
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Chris Spencer
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Re: URGENT JAVELIN STEERING BOX MOUNTING CHECKS
David -
NKJ - Looks fine
DCB - No rush but next time you get the opertunity I would wind the through bolt out and take a look behind that non original oversize washer
NKJ - Looks fine
DCB - No rush but next time you get the opertunity I would wind the through bolt out and take a look behind that non original oversize washer
Yes - The rubber boot has split and requires replacement - which we shall do when we undertake the mounting repair (Peters car also requires athe same boot replacing) - I take it that JCS may stock the boot ?PS. Keith's rubber shroud on his steering box looks strange in your photo? It should be a hooded shape. Has it been forced upwards by a bump in the past? I believe there is a big spring and nut beneath the rubber shroud, similar to that on the steering idler?
37 Jowett 8 HP - In many parts
52 Javelin Std 'Taxi Livery'
52 Javelin Std Patina project
52 Javelin Std Sports project
52 Jupiter SA - Original car - full restoration project
52 Javelin Std 'Taxi Livery'
52 Javelin Std Patina project
52 Javelin Std Sports project
52 Jupiter SA - Original car - full restoration project
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Forumadmin
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Re: URGENT JAVELIN STEERING BOX MOUNTING CHECKS
I am not sure about NKJ. It looks to me like the hole is elongated. that washer on DCB may be ther for a reason! 
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David Morris
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Re: URGENT JAVELIN STEERING BOX MOUNTING CHECKS
Hi Keith,
Good point and food for thought! I was wondering that, 60 years ago, car manufacturing must have been a less-than-precise operation compared to today and I bet there was quite a degree of 'adjust to fit' carried out on the Jowett factory floor. Thinking about the elongated hole you discovered for the steering box mounting on Peter's car and your comments about my steering box mountings made me think we may be seeing the results of manufacturing tolerances between Jowett's and Briggs, who I believe made the Javelin body shells as a finished item. There may have been somone on the factory floor with a large round file, ready to help things 'fit'?
Anyway, I am very impressed by the care and detail of the effort being put into Peter's car by you and your team and if we can help at all, just let us know.
All the best,
David
Good point and food for thought! I was wondering that, 60 years ago, car manufacturing must have been a less-than-precise operation compared to today and I bet there was quite a degree of 'adjust to fit' carried out on the Jowett factory floor. Thinking about the elongated hole you discovered for the steering box mounting on Peter's car and your comments about my steering box mountings made me think we may be seeing the results of manufacturing tolerances between Jowett's and Briggs, who I believe made the Javelin body shells as a finished item. There may have been somone on the factory floor with a large round file, ready to help things 'fit'?
Anyway, I am very impressed by the care and detail of the effort being put into Peter's car by you and your team and if we can help at all, just let us know.
All the best,
David
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Chris Spencer
- Posts: 1937
- Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2009 8:45 pm
- Your interest in the forum: Jowett Restoration Specialist
- Given Name: Chris
- Location: Hampshire. UK
Re: URGENT JAVELIN STEERING BOX MOUNTING CHECKS
When I am back in the workshop this weekend I will draw the bolt out the the steering box mounting on Jacks Javelin - which is without the engine & box anyway - significant point with this is that I think that the box / mounting has remained untouched since the car left the factory - this will give us the answer to if the elongation is a standard factory item - or the fact that the elongation is the result of the steering boxes moving about on the mountings
37 Jowett 8 HP - In many parts
52 Javelin Std 'Taxi Livery'
52 Javelin Std Patina project
52 Javelin Std Sports project
52 Jupiter SA - Original car - full restoration project
52 Javelin Std 'Taxi Livery'
52 Javelin Std Patina project
52 Javelin Std Sports project
52 Jupiter SA - Original car - full restoration project
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David Morris
- Posts: 837
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Re: URGENT JAVELIN STEERING BOX MOUNTING CHECKS
Hi Jack,
Good idea! The steering box on NKJ 352, where it looks like the bolt hole has been elongated, has never, to my knowledge anyway, been off since the factory, and we have had the car since 1967. There is no evidence of movement or fretting near the hole and I suspect the last person to have touched that bolt was someone on the factory floor.
All the best,
David
Good idea! The steering box on NKJ 352, where it looks like the bolt hole has been elongated, has never, to my knowledge anyway, been off since the factory, and we have had the car since 1967. There is no evidence of movement or fretting near the hole and I suspect the last person to have touched that bolt was someone on the factory floor.
All the best,
David