Jowett/Subaru

[PAUL BEAUMONT]

Much has been speculated and refuted about any connection between the Javelin engine and the Subaru Flat Four. As many of you know I have run Subaru Legacys for the past 15 years or so, currently driving a Diesel. Last Tuesday it demonstrated a distinct similarity to an early Javelin - it broke down with speculatively .... a broken crankshaft! apparently not an uncommon occurrence on the early boxer diesels. With such legendary problems afflicting the early Javelin one would have thought that the canny Japanese would have ensured that their, much vaunted, boxer diesel would be bomb-proof in that department. I now look forward to a bill of more than the value of the car - not exactly the Christmas present I was hoping for

[Keith Clements]

Not pleasant at all. My GTB had a small ticking sound like a tappet. After discussion with various 'experts' I decided to carefully drive it to one of them who rebuilt Subaru engines for rallying. On the way it spectacularly blew up on the M4 with so much smoke that all three lanes had to slow down in the fog. Although there was a very dented head , mutilated piston and very bent con rod the crank survived. But a second hand replacement GTB engine was found and dropped in. Bill was about £1200 including parts and labour. The ticking was apparently caused by a worn little end causing just that extra amount of movement to let the piston hit the head on this highly tuned engine.

[Keith Andrews]

Wife had a 1988 omega /leone. the old carbed EA82 (?) 1800(?) engine
We could get from Auckland to Wellington ...approx 600 miles from memory, on a tank of gas.. just.
The most ecomonical car we ever had....
Eventually a tappet started to tap, stripped engine couple times, replaced changed , nothing would stop the tappet, which came back a few days after a oil change service.
The seats are now in the Camaro.. the Americans have/ had no idea of even the slightest comfortable bucket seat back in the 60s/ 70s...And the seats are damn near idential in size, and recline back to.
We eventually sold the car, then brought it back a few years later, then sold it again couple years ago....and it is still running.

[PAUL BEAUMONT]

Yes Keith, Until the diesel I had driven 350K miles in 3 petrol engined 2 litre Legacies with no greater problem than a rattling heat shield on the exhaust and a wheel bearing at over 140K. This Diesel destroyed its gear box at 21K and now its engine at just over 100K. Subaru have taken their eye off the ball.

Paul

[Keith Clements]

As Gerald Palmer said, mechanical things need development. The Javelin engine suffered from lack of it and the Subaru boxer diesel did as well. It takes years to get engine reliablility. Innovation is great whilst it lasts, but that is not often long.

[Keith Andrews]

I thibnk the only execption or reliablity , off the top of my head would be the Chevy sb back in the 50s, nailed it straight off and good for the next 40 odd years.

[David Kemp]

Any one ever put a Subaru engine into a Javelin? Would make a nice hotrod Javelin, without upsetting handling....would obviously need updated brakes etc.....

[Jack]

Any one ever put a Subaru engine into a Javelin? Would make a nice hotrod Javelin, without upsetting handling....would obviously need updated brakes etc.....

I did the measurements while we were looking at another route for Project B, and it looks like a fairly straight swap, the dimensions are very similar. Doubling the power with a naturally aspirated 1.8 or 2.0 seems sensible without generating huge numbers of other problems.

Also the weight of the engine and gearbox is almost identical, so wouldn't upset handling at all that I can see - other than the fact you'd be going a lot quicker that is!

My three ton Bedford CF motorhome has a 2.3 litre engine, more momentum than a freight train, and just has servo assisted drums and it stops very abruptly when required. So discs wouldn't be an absolutely necessary to be safe modification if you kept the bhp reasonable.

It would however be much more difficult to fit any of the turbo engines in the Javelin engine bay. I think it would be fairly straightforward on a Jupiter, with very little restricting space above and around the engine, but 400bhp in a Jupiter? Bonkers. I have no idea how you'd ever put that much power down with the rear arches still on the car - remove them and go for 2' wide rims, but then with a Subaru engine and looking completely different it isn't really a Jupiter any more is it?

Jack.

[Jack]

Yes Keith, Until the diesel I had driven 350K miles in 3 petrol engined 2 litre Legacies with no greater problem than a rattling heat shield on the exhaust and a wheel bearing at over 140K. This Diesel destroyed its gear box at 21K and now its engine at just over 100K. Subaru have taken their eye off the ball.

Paul

I agree about the historic quality of Subaru engines. Each of ours were pretty much flawless through me taking them from 70-80K miles to 100K, but surely you had the omnipresent Legacy minor oil leak? Every one we had did the same thing, tiny leak that used to smoke a bit from under the bonnet, burned about 10ml every 100 miles, so not worth fixing.

I did manage the most spectacular breakdown when a belt snapped (must have been original, very very worn rubber) and it then whipped round and cut through the top hose - quite a lot of steam across three lanes of the M25 that time, but managed to top it up and get myself to work by driving a bit, stopping for a while, driving a bit, and repeat. I had the new belts within 20 minutes, a new top hose proved almost impossible to find even from the main dealer!

Jack.

[PAUL BEAUMONT]

No Jack, never had any sort of oil leak, though they have always been dealer maintained, but I do know what you mean about Subaru (or International Motors) parts policy. When this one destroyed its gearbox I thought it would be a straight forward gearbox swap, but oh no, with Subaru they have the dealer scour the world for parts to rebuild it. 7 weeks later and with parts from at least 3 continents all that remained of the original box was the casing. I am told that a similar policy applies to engines. The dealer will have to garner together all the parts and rebuild the thing, with a bill of more than twice the vehicle value!

[Jack]

I know when Keith managed a fairly spectacular engine breakdown a replacement engine was found by a local Subaru specialist that didn't sound too expensive - not sure if the diesel will be so easy, but certainly worth a phone call vs writing off the car or paying out thousands for a brand new rebuild.

Jack.

[Keith Clements]

Try Colin Minton 07771767874

[paul wilks]

David Kemp wrote:
Any one ever put a Subaru engine into a Javelin? Would make a nice hotrod Javelin, without upsetting handling....would obviously need updated brakes etc.....

Yes, David, they did!
I corresponded with Chris Gibson of Doncaster in 2000 who bought an early Javelin with a Subaru engine. The membership list still shows him as a member in 2012.
Perhaps rather than relate second hand what he told me it would be best to contact him direct to see how things worked out.
The last thing I heard was that Chris's intention was to fit a Javelin engine.
Hope this helps.

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to everyone!
Paul

[Forumadmin]

There was also a Javelin at Crieff Jowett Weekend demonstrating how it was to be done. I may have put the write up on the website, so perhaps someone would try to find it as I am busy preparing for 2 weeks of intense Javelin rebuild!

[Forumadmin]

There was also a Javelin at the Buxton rally in the 70s with a Subaru gearbox.