rules with the new child seat regulations

[k. rogers]

As someone with two young children, it would be good to have this law clarified. It would seem that in the case of my Weasel (obviously without seatbelts) my children are allowed to ride in the back but not in the front which would mean in the case of a 2 seater they would not be permitted in the car at all! When you read the document it is quite ambiguous for some cases and I wonder if those members with children have really taken on board the serious implications or whether like me they thought that the new law wouldn't apply to cars such as ours anyway. Perhaps someone more 'in the know' would like to comment!

[TedAllen]

As a grandpa of 2 two year olds and a 4 year old, I would not let any of them be carried in either the Javelin or my 2 seater, the Renault fourgonette, I think the bottom line is that your kids are too precious to be carried in what is, basically, a dangerous environment. No safety cage. side bars, air bags or rear ( or front) seat belts is just not on. Gone are the days when one bought the baby home from maternity in an unrestrained carry-cot on the back seat. However careful you are, there's just too much traffic about now.
Incidentally, my youngest daughter has never been in the Javelin, although it has been in the family since before she came on the scene 28 years ago. I think she felt her pals would laugh at her dad's choice of car when in her teens and this has persisted to date. Aren't some folk strange ?
Ted

[Keith Andrews]

Yes cotton wool society,

Thats a understatement, fully aggree...
Bloody inexperianced, young ppl sitting behind a dexk (and bever get out of it) in the capital freaming up PC rules to justfiy their salary.

If the spent a bit of time on a classic atr run they would see owners have a respect thar rhwir generation has no concept of.
Classic car owners have a lot of money/ time well in access of the value of the car...they dont drive stupid, they donrt tail gate, they check triple check intersections, dont run red lights.....And on top of that take even greater care with young children in the care...
None of these driving habits are built into legislation.

I had my Bradford put thru a 'Dumbie' WoF check (MoT in England) last week..To the book...by a accredited Tester who had just been audited with a rating 2.9 out od 3 (ave pass is around 2.3)

There are special sections in the WoF spec manual for old classic cars.

It failed because I have the center stop.tail/number plate loght, plus a reflecting tail light on each side.....The requirement is the center light plus reflecter on each side (opitional) ..If I remove the bulds from the outside lights it would have passed!!!

It was also failed because of a slightly buckled wheel(on the front)... a couple mm that cant be detected in the steering when driving.
Accessed by the accessor as well within practical save limits.

In all other respects, steering and linkages, brakes, tyres, bearings, oil leaks, emissions, construction, rust, electical, door catches, etc it passed with flighing colours.

[Forumadmin]

Would I take my grandchild out in the Jup on the front seat without a seat belt or carry cot or air bag? Yes. And I would watch the delight in his/her eyes. Alternative is sit in the back of a modern watching a DVD and die from obesity.
I would also let him/her play in the garden where there is pond without a fence. I would let them climb cliffs and trees without safety harnesses and scaffolding. They will learn very quickly to support themselves, assess danger and overcome adversity. I would let them go backpacking in Indonesia alone. Oh sorry, this mail contains nuts.

[Graham Hewitt]

I believe Norway (not EU-member) now have the same rules as the EU. No matter what car, old or new, children under a surtain age/height/weight have to be in an approved seat, and fastened with rolling belts connected to the car at three points.
They can fine me any day !!
My three year old daughter loves a good run in our Jupiter, especially with the top down. First time I had her out in the Jupiter, I couldn't get her out of the car again!! She sat in her seat until the car was parked in garage. Early....and I mean early....the next morning, she was outside the garage door, and asked if the car was awake and ready!!
We also have a Javelin in our family, and here we go for family runs, outings and meets every now and then. My wife, my eldest daughter (3-years old), my youngest daughter (10 mnths) and myself. We don't "race" arround, but futter arround country roads at a rather slow pace, letting other traffic pass safely, and I have no second thoughts doing this. If I get fined, I'll gladly pay , but won't stop taking my family out in our cars...I'm not stupid!!?!?

[TedAllen]

Perhaps those members who have posted on this matter live in quieter areas or perhaps they think I was being over-protective when saying my grand-kids would not travel in the Javelin but even if you are the best driver in town there is still the one that hits you. Traffic where I live is hectic. If you are out in the Jav people tailgate you or overtake in silly places just so they can see what you are driving or just to get in front of you. Cars come out of side roads without looking, buses and vans jump red lights and stop signs. Taxis do U.turns without warning and many of our immigrant residents have little idea of road rules. Having seen the results of accidents, many fatal, as a former Police patrol driver and having lost one precious grandchild I am still not going to let them ride unprotected....and I know their mothers wouldn't let me.

ted

[Graham Hewitt]

It's not that I don't love my daughters, but I'm afraid I can't live under the slogun: "What if...".
Kids today have bicycle-helmets, knee and elbow pads etc, etc. Under swings in playgrounds in Norway, by norwegian law, there has to be loose sand that will prevent injury. When I was young we had tarmac under our swing, no helmets and when skateboarding we used to wear T-shirt and shorts. Ok, we fell of, and learnt our lesson.
Our kids growing up, are bound to be the greatest cowards ever. All they know about pain, is brought through PS and other games.

A brand new car is no garanty that your future accident is not fatal, unfortunately.
I don't mean to sound harsh, or offend anyone in any way, and I respect others oppinion, especially when involving grandchildren or others kids.

....and yes, by the way, traffic in Norway is quieter than in perhaps England. We are not quite 5 mill. people here yet!!

[Keith Andrews]

Rules of safe driving...how I teach my children to drive
1/If u have an accident, even if legally in the right, u made a mistake.
2/Drive like everyone is an idiot
3/Always have an out/retreat
4/Drive as if you are a pilot with the responsablity of the lives of several 100 passangers...
5/Drive well ahead..know what is happening way up front
6/Drive to your capablities and drive to the conditions of the road and traffic...the lesser of the sum of the above.
7/Never loose slight of the purpose u are driving...to actually to get to where u want to go, and still do what u want to do when u get there.
8/Ideally one should be able to drive never using the brakes...in practice one does need to apply light brakes....The harder u need to apply the more dangerous (at risk) your driving is....ie If the traffic stops up front unexpectally, u should never have to brake any harder..If u are paying attention.

The final test for my children to be a good driver, is when they can drive with me as a passenger and not feel intimidated by me...it is at this piont they, like a pilot, have the confidence to be in full control of the car and the passengers. Yes I can be rather an intimidating person. 2 out of 3 of pur children can now drive without feeling intimidated...even thu are several yrs I may still quietly say something like "open the space up a bit"

Yes there are accidents that cant be advoided....eg a high speed racer passing on a blind cnr crossing the center line on the open road...under these circumstances, no matter what sort of car u are in, a head on at 120 to 180 mph....the chances of suriving are near to nil.
Yes ppl can pull out from a blind spot (behind a truck) if you are driving with space, driving with an out, u may clip a kerb, blow a couple tyres and minor damage but no one gets hurt (an incident happened to me 12 months ago towing with the trailer on tha camaro at 20mph)

Sure we can drive safe all we like, but it is those who dont, (thru ignorance or just plain stupidity) that dont and these laws are created because of the stupid minority...and we all suffer because of it.
It would be more logical, rather than the restrictive law, to remove these ppl from the roads, but then the PC do gooders would then complain infringement of civil rights, and thats not logical to their arguements either.