Radiator mounting on a 7hp falcon

[MartinRaine]

Hi i am having bother trying to line the bonnet up to the radiator, the problem is that if you remove the bottom two mounting bolts and slide the radiator forwards about 1" the bonnet will then run parallel with the radiator, is this normal ? do you have to make some sort of brackets or am i missing them, or is there another way to set it up. also at the back side bonnet to bulkhead the gap is larger at the bottom. Do you have to put washers under the hinge pins? Finally is the radiator mounted on rubbers. Thanks Martin

[ian Howell]

Martin et al: -

I shall watch this post with interest. I am having similar problems with my Long Four. The silly thing is that I have not moved the bulkhead, and the radiator is centred nicely in the chassis, but the bonnet panels - which fitted just right before I took it to pieces and are the original panels (chassis number stamped in a corner of a side panel) = now misalign by about 18mm in places.

Of course I could cut the panels to fit the present set-up, but that shouldn't be necessary!

Suggestions on a 'post' please!

[george garside]

not sure a;bout this but the following may be worth a try. completely loosen radiator mounting brackets /bolts etc - losson nuts on stays between radiator & scuttle - - with bonnet lined up correctly to scuttle try to manouvre radiator by moving the TOP of rad back &or forward untill correct gaps are achieved i.e. it could be that the radiator is not in the correct vertical plain ( which is sloping rather than precisely vertical. It would require only a very small movement on the bottom bolts/mountings to move the top of the rad half or 3/4 inch fore or aft. SDame goes for slight twist on ;central axis to compensate for uneveness of fit on one side or tother. Again not sure but have a feeling bottom mounting holes allow abit of movement ? if all else fails slightly elongate bolt holes.

george

[Peter Holden]

Have you had the radiator restored? By others?
If so I would suggest it has been assembled incorrectly. Have heard about the problem before. The radiator should be vertical and the surround is not. There are panels soldered to the radiator and surround that set the angle. If you have had it restored by a radiator repair then I suggest you take it back and get job done correctly.
i assume you have the feet round the correct way. The 34 rad is different to the 35.

[MartinRaine]

Hi i have the same problem i have only stripped it down same bonnet and radiator so i should be exactly the same, but i need to move the radiator about 3/4" forwards on its mounting feet at the bottom. The only way i think it can be fixed is to make some brackets to move the mounting holes just in front of the cross member. I have seen this before on other jowetts, but i still don't understand why???. I cant think of any other way. Unless some one has had the same problem in the past?. Thanks martin

[Tony Fearn]

Hello Martin, (Ian, George and Peter),

It's one of those fiddly bits. But if you've only stripped the various items to clean and paint, then of course it should all go back together again.

I'm a great believer in the maxim (- often quoted by Mr Kav***** of Keighley) - It's a machine Tony, it can be fixed!

As Peter says, the 1935 radiator is a little bit different to the 1934 model, perhaps in the rake of the cowl, although I agree that the radiator itself should be vertical, i.e. at 90 degrees to the run of the chassis. My observations are regarding 'Mary Ellen's' radiator (1934), but I think they'll be general.

What George says is what I was thinking about. Because the scuttle/bulkhead is a fixed entity, the rear hinge pin, which doesn't have a washer underneath it, is where it always has been, and so can be used as a fulcrum point, it's the rad that's the moveable part.

So the rear edge of the bonnet to the scuttle (as George says) should be the starting point. When it's lined up ok, and the gap is what it should be, then consider the bottom edge of the bonnet side panels. These should follow the contours of the wings if the wings are in their original position.

'Mary Ellen's radiator mounting brackets each have an extension piece on them which is a steel strap/bar about 1.5" long x 5/8" wide x 1/4" thick with two holes in them. This allows the rad to be moved forward as much as needed rather than just bolting it to the brackets around the round front cross tube. One hole allows the strap to be fastened to the bracket whilst the other takes the rad mounting bolt.

I think the rad mounting hole on the strap should be drilled so that the bottom of the front edge of the bonnet has the correct spacing, and this again will act as a fulcrum point. Adjustment of the radiator stay rods (bulkhead to radiator) should then allow lining up of the bonnet side front edge and the cowl.

The straps may need to be placed above or below the brackets to allow a height difference, which together with perhaps numerous washers will keep the lower edge of the bonnet sides from fouling the paintwork on the wings.

It's the sort of thing that really needs more than one pair of hands, two pairs might just halve the frustration level.

Just give it a bit of thinking about whilst drinking a cup of sweet tea in the garage and staring at the problem.

Tony.

[MartinRaine]

Hi i have been asking around and vintage car restorer told me the proper way to realign the bonnet up is to slacken the body bolts off and shim the body up, so that the bulkhead is raised about 1/8" to 1/4", this will then pull the bonnet back and allow you to fix the radiator in its original holes. This sounds logical . He told me to use thin ply for shims. He told me that he has had to do this on most of his car rebuilds to aline the bonnet / radiator. what do you think?? Or should i go for the plate as you mentioned. Thanks Martin

[Chris Spencer]

Martin - Going back a long time I was apprenticed in classic / vintage car restoration - what you have heard from other sources - is very much true - we always allowed to shim the bodies off the chassis mounting points to get gapping correct - I can not recall rebuilding a car of seperate body / chassis construction without having to do this - not just for the bulkhead / bonnet assembly but all around the car to ensure correct door gaps etc and especially on tourers / open bodied cars.

[george garside]

Chris & Martin - just a couple of clarification queries on the shimming process.

1. ARe the shims then left in place for all eternity?, and did manufacturers originally use shims for setting bonnet door gaps etc.

2. taking into account the flexibility of the ladder chassis & even the 135 on cross braced chassis it is presumably imperative that the car is on dead level ground when lining things up or if on blocks that the chassis is measured as being dead level with no twist whatsoever.

george

[Chris Spencer]

George - In answer to both the points you have raised 'Yes' - we blocked the chassis up so that the wheels were off the floor - then checked for level both front to back and side to side - with spirit levels - we then made the shims up from thin marine ply - set the body to the correct appertures / gaps etc - then took out each shim /s on a one at time basis - sealed the ply with a suitable waterproof varnish and then refitted it.

[MartinRaine]

Hi i now have the radiator/bonnet/bulkhead gaps spot on. This is how i did it . I slackened off the front 4 body bolts. and lifted the body up 5mm.
Then i slotted the radiator mounting holes, I Also made a 3mm spacer for the back hinge swivel. i put rubber washers under the radiator, This all took a long time to get right but it now all fits spot on, I hope this helps other people, thanks for all the help. Martin