Alloy wheels for Javelin/Jupiter, possibly others

[Jack]

All,

I seem to have found a possible source for replacement wheels for the Jupiter, Javelin, and possibly others.

I remembered a discussion with Keith when we were sorting through dozens of wheels for the SC project, where he mentioned there were old Saab wheels that fitted, and that to get a wheel balanced was a bit of a job due to the bolt spacing but that there were Saab wheels that used the same bolt spacing etc.

So, a bit of a hunt around has turned up these, available from a good manufacturer of alloy wheels, Compomotive:



http://www.comp.co.uk/wheels/wheels.asp?range=HSP_0048

They look to be correct bolt spacing, I am investigating whether these actually do fit, but could be a good alternative to 60 year old steel wheels that when we were investigating had cracks showing on some wheels and which will eventually become in shorter supply.

From the discussions the Saab guys seem to be having about these wheels online, they were previously very very expensive, and even secondhand steel wheels for their cars have got to similar price if not higher.

I contacted them and they don't know if they will fit a Jowett, the wheels are 5" wide, 15" rim. I think this will fit using the same tyres we do on the steels. Can someone confirm?

They aren't pocket change though, £850 for 5 without tyres, and lead time will be approx 4 weeks. Apparently Kuhmo do a tyre which is readily available and fits these wheels, but I don't know what the fit would be like under the arch with those tyres fitted.

All this said, I've never seen alloy wheels for a Jowett hub before, so one to be aware of if anyone is looking to "pimp their ride". They should look pretty cool, kind of like a Minilite wheel which is a classic look, and the centre of the wheel should be big enough to hide the drum brakes behind it and also possibly help with keeping the drums cool.

I'll be doing some more research and will report back, if anyone has any specific questions or knows whether this kind of wheel has a chance of fitting, just shout.

Jack.

[Forumadmin]

Saab wheels fit , sort of. You need to drill new holes in the web between the other holes as the Pitch Circle Diameter is different. I still have the jig to do it.
But you will also need to fit new studs (Land Rover) and wheel spacers to get the contact point in line with the King Pin.
They are 15" (not 16" as original) so you will also need overdrive or high ratio diff, unless you drive as you normally do, Jack....
But 15" are much easier to obtain decent tyres and for road are race are good. Not much good when you need ground clearance! So go slow over those speed bumps.

[Jack]

Saab wheels fit , sort of. You need to drill new holes in the web between the other holes as the Pitch Circle Diameter is different. I still have the jig to do it.
But you will also need to fit new studs (Land Rover) and wheel spacers to get the contact point in line with the King Pin.
They are 15" (not 16" as original) so you will also need overdrive or high ratio diff, unless you drive as you normally do, Jack....
But 15" are much easier to obtain decent tyres and for road are race are good. Not much good when you need ground clearance! So go slow over those speed bumps.

Lowered would look good, and smaller diameter means no problems with tyre touching the inside of the arch. Overdrive or higher ratio diff should be negated by a more powerful engine and gearbox, ground clearance will be more of a problem.

Sounds like more work than just a straight swap, which I was hoping for, but I think these are as close as we're going to get for the Javelin project.

Are the Jupiter wheels 16" as well? I seem to remember a lot of discussion about it but can't remember the numbers.

I might be able to get a deal on a bare casting unpainted, even better without any holes drilled at all, and then we could do the drilling ourselves - how realistic is this though? Perhaps if we marked up a blank for the manufacturer they could do the drilling for us and balance the wheel? Does your jig use the original Saab holes and drill additional, or would it work on a blank?

New studs and spacers not such a concern, and should be easily available.

Jack.

[Chris Spencer]

I can not believe that in within the vast automotive market that there is not a wheel rim / alloy that would be a direct fit - there is a new simple piece of kit on the market which made from perspex which measures wheel pitch / hole centres I think it less than a tenner - I will find out and report back - with this and a bit of research you can 'Go Compare' - there must be something out there that fits !

[Forumadmin]

The racing boys tried for years to find 15" or 16" without luck. So perhaps you will be lucky!

[Jack]

I can not believe that in within the vast automotive market that there is not a wheel rim / alloy that would be a direct fit - there is a new simple piece of kit on the market which made from perspex which measures wheel pitch / hole centres I think it less than a tenner - I will find out and report back - with this and a bit of research you can 'Go Compare' - there must be something out there that fits !

Compomotive are making these from casts (or having them made, more like) so if we wanted a certain PCD it may be possible. Given the price tag I'd hope so.

I am going to call them tomorrow to see if we can either get them made slightly different PCD (unlikely) or alternatively supply bare casts ready to paint but without bolt holes at a discounted price - that way we may be able to use Keith's jig to get the correct holes drilled by an engineering firm and then we can paint/lacquer once this has been done.

It does surprise me that there aren't other options out there, but then this might be a chicken and egg situation - you don't see Jowetts with alloys fitted, but then there aren't any suppliers, suppliers want to see a market before they manufacture expensive wheels etc. Do we know what other cars have the same PCD? Is the Saab the closest?

Jack.

[Forumadmin]

The thing you cannot change on the casting is the J or I shape of the vertical to horizontal parts of the wheel. It is most important that the centre of the tyre contact patch with the road is the same place as where the king pin inclination line projects onto the road. Hence why I have various spacers for my Jup which change depending on the wheel size and centre line offset.

Certainly do not commission any work or spend any money until you have this sorted.

[Jack]

Well, it seems the PCD problem is fixable, I have spoken to Compomotive, and as they manufacture the wheels in house they may be able to manufacture a set of one-off wheels to the right PCD for us.

The other dimensions are not something we can change for the casting, but we will need to do our research on the offset of them and whether they will be compatible, or what spacers we will need to use.

Agreed, nothing being ordered or commissioned until we are 100% certain that they will be perfect - though it is looking pretty positive at the moment that it is workable.

The Javaru project continues...

Jack.

[Amy]

The Javaru project continues...

Will it have a tail and be all bouncy then??

[Jack]

The Javaru project continues...

Will it have a tail and be all bouncy then??

it will be running on standard suspension, and that long boot does look a bit like a tail, I think that's where the likeness ends

I have a friend working on photoshop so we can get an idea of how the colours and wheels will look, should help to keep the motivation going through the cold winter in the garage.

In the meantime, we have some measuring to do on the engine and gearbox front, though I am increasingly confident on this - I haven't found a problem measurement yet, but then theory doesn't count for much on engine swaps

[Moises Jr.]

I investigated wheels theme, 16" impossible for the width, the other options are Suzuki and Wolkswagen Beetle old version, but ever 15"
http://www.automobiles.de/epages/617371 ... ucts/18937
http://www.midlandwheels.com/Shop/P-216 ... 5x205.html

I think that this adaptador it's ok

Saludos!

[Jack]

Hi Moises,

Some interesting results there. Not sure if we'll get a 5.5" wheel under the front though, but will check - rear should be ok, but I'd need to check the clearance on the front on full lock, the current ones seem to be 5.25 x 16", but I guess a small increase is ok on a 15" rim, should easily gain the 0.25" from the reduction in diameter to avoid any rubbing.

I quite like the idea of a lowered look without having to make modifications to suspension etc, and the 15" rim should give me that.

I may have to pay a little visit to a few of the wheel places, most seem to be around Birmingham for some reason, should be easy enough for me to drop in on a Saturday with a hub and wheel and do some comparison.

Definitely worth us knowing for the future what alternative wheels are possible on our cars, as there seems to be an issue with steel wheels cracking, and eventually these are a safety critical part that if given a hard life will fail at some point.

Jack.

[Chris Spencer]

Many years ago when we raced a Formula 1 stock car (self built chassis - single seater roll cage) and stuffed a 8 litre + Chev in it for short ovel racing - we made / fabricated many things that were non shelf items - this included the steel wheels - the rims came direct from the local Mercedes dealer surplus to requirements having being upgraded to alloys - we would carefully cut the centres out and weld a new centre into it, that we had profile cut and shaped by a local fabrication shop in some cases we also cut the rim in two and made it wider with addition of a central steel band welded in to place. The rim bead would then have 12mm round steel bar welded to it so it could take the knocks in racing - of course you would not have to do the latter if it was just for road use. This process was not a quick cut & shut job - the wheels had to withstand the 600 BHP being transmitted through them. Anything is possible given a little thought and planning (ok and some of the folding stuff ).

[Srenner]

Hey everybody,

i have chased this one down for years over here.

Porsche/VW wide 5 pattern is not adaptable to the Jowett pattern.

I have talked with several manufacturers (Halibrand, PS Engineering, Taylor Made) with the same result.

I have NOT called firms that do CNC wheels as I was after one set. Perhaps with a few of us this gets a little more feasible.

Also, Joe Caudo in Oz had magnesium centers cast for his car way back in the early '90's. Mounted them on alloy rims, if I recall correctly. I got in touch with him back then to ask about getting a set made or to borrow the dies. He responded, but was not inclined to help me.

Wheel adaptors are a less expensive alternative that we could have made. On the disc brake thread, I mentioned adapting a different hub to fit the Jowett . Several cars use the same rear axle and the taper is a standardized "Morris taper", so perhaps a different drum set up would work for the rear.

I'm in for at least one set of whatever we come up with!

Regards from sunny Los Angeles,
Scott

[Jack]

Hey everybody,

i have chased this one down for years over here.

Porsche/VW wide 5 pattern is not adaptable to the Jowett pattern.

I have talked with several manufacturers (Halibrand, PS Engineering, Taylor Made) with the same result.

I have NOT called firms that do CNC wheels as I was after one set. Perhaps with a few of us this gets a little more feasible.

Also, Joe Caudo in Oz had magnesium centers cast for his car way back in the early '90's. Mounted them on alloy rims, if I recall correctly. I got in touch with him back then to ask about getting a set made or to borrow the dies. He responded, but was not inclined to help me.

Wheel adaptors are a less expensive alternative that we could have made. On the disc brake thread, I mentioned adapting a different hub to fit the Jowett . Several cars use the same rear axle and the taper is a standardized "Morris taper", so perhaps a different drum set up would work for the rear.

I'm in for at least one set of whatever we come up with!

Regards from sunny Los Angeles,
Scott

Hi Scott,

I am also investigating custom spacers to make the stud pattern more "standard" though I do have concerns that this will effectively be a spacer, and as a result may restrict the possible wheels we can go with as it will affect the offset - it may also be an expensive part to have made, 4 x spacers could easily come to £200+ if they have to be custom made.

Further discussions today with Compomotive planned, hopefully if we can get a few people interested they will be more inclined to adjust the PCD on the Saab wheels they are running a batch of - at £850 a set they are actually relatively cheap for custom made wheels, but hopefully they would be prepared to make a minor modification at the machining stage. Note they do all this in-house anyway, so huge numbers may not be required. Adjusting the PCD for the bolt holes is about as minor as a change could be to the design, but they may not want to do this if it means a lot of manual work to set up machines.

However, if we could get the machinery set up by them, I am pretty confident they would have a strong monopoly on these wheels, and there seems to be a demand for this, albeit a small one. Once they've done one set, every unit after that pays back a bit of the initial cost. All this said, they don't seem to run the Saab wheel batches very often, and there is some excitement online from the Saab lot that they are being run again and at the price they are.

Jack.