Unusual details on E0PB8092D

[Andrew Henshall]

I've been helping the ex-owner and new owner of Javelin E0PB8092 recently, and have a couple of questions about unusual details that we noted:

Brake/Tail light assemblies: this PB Javelin does not have the usual rear Brake/Tail light assemblies, and apparently there is no evidence that they were ever fitted. I've not seen a PB that was built without these lights - has anyone else?

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Gearbox Serial number: the gearbox that is fitted to this Javelin is missing the stamped serial number! It has the cast gearbox casing part number (50001), and JCL's stamped letters in circles that indicate various manufacturing changes. I assume that it is a J-Box, and not a Meadows box. We will have to take the top off and count the teeth!

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All input on these details will be welcomed.

Andrew

[JUP]

The very early Javelins did not have any rear lights on the wings - just the light on the boot which did the job of a brake light and number plate light
I have a very early 1948 Javelin and mine has no ''rear wing lights'' also
It also has a screw cap for the radiator and the metal does seem slightly thicker
I understand the boot on the earlier ones were made of aluminimum also -
I have had no reason to check gearbox numbers as my Javelin is a running driving car

[David Morris]

Hi All,

Not sure about the very early Javelins, but mine always had an aluminium inner boot lid. These used to fracture around the hinges, and are a weak point, which is quite difficult to repair.

One of my very early Javelins had a boot light, which was wired into the side light circuit. There should have been a shroud over the bulb, with a red glass top, that would have shown when the boot was open in the dark. However, I must have left it off one day and I can remember the heat from the bulb burnt a hole in a rather smart ( expensive in the 1960s ! ) Harris tweed overcoat that I had put over the top of the family luggage. I was not impressed and didn't do it again!

I can also remember one time searching high and low for the car keys in the dark ( blaming everyone else of course! ), and not realising that they were still in the lock of the open boot, which were then up in the air and totally out of sight!

All the best,

David

[paul wilks]

Wow! I've only ever seen photos of an early Javelin without the rear wing light assemblies! Looks splendid and so streamlined!
I guess it would be a pity to mess with the rear wings and fit the usual Javelin rear lamp assemblies (or any other rear lamp assembly, for that matter!) and I assume the single lamp above the rear numberplate would be legal since it was original (?) but I would have also thought if this Javelin is going to be used at night it would be safer to fit additional rear/brake lamps under/over the rear bumper?
Just a thought! Wonder what others think?

[Andrew Henshall]

100% agree with you Paul. The new owner (like you) feels it is wrong to modify the rear guards by fitting the later PB brake/tail light assemblies (although he has a pair that came loose with the car), or VW Beetle rear lights, or any similar lights either. He said he is going to fit an LED High Level Brake Light (Hella - sourced from New Zealand) which is very bright when illuminated, but is definitely unobtrusive when its not. Because it has a clear lens, the optics appear clear until illuminated. It draws only 2W, and has reverse polarity protection. See below for a car fitted with one of these Hella lights, He will be fitting suitable amber flashers to brackets mounted on the bumper though. :

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[JUP]

With safety a priority - here is a solution

[Jav8092D]

Hi everyone, I'm Chris, the new owner of 8092D.
I had the gearbox open a couple of days ago and can confirm that it is a Meadows box, or at least the internals are.
The car has been painted twice in its life, once a slightly darker attempt to match the original correct colour of Turquoise Blue and then it had this colour change (which I'm not fond of) and it will be getting painted back to its correct factory colour. I've had a really good look at the rear guards and there is no indication of any attempt to fill what would have been a reasonable hole if lamps had been fitted an that's looking underneath as well.
It is otherwise a remarkable sound car with no evidence of any of the typical rust areas whcih makes my life a lot easier.
Oh and the boot lid is steel, not aluminium...

[Nick Webster]

Regarding the fitting of two tail lights, this is one of the very few bits of UK lighting regulation that was back dated and applies to all cars, hence the variety of accessory rear lights fitted to pre legislation builds. Curiously, the one exception is buses where to this day, one light is legal. At first only a single brake light was required and various manufacturers modified the original tail light to suit that purpose, tending to result in three tail lights across the back. Not actually required, but not illegal either. Manufacturers were given ample time to prepare for the new legislation and it is interesting how early Jowetts took it on board considering it was not mandatory till 1953, when they were past caring.

I don't know about Australian lighting laws but I can only assume that as an export car, somebody made a conscious decision to leave the wing mounted tail lights off. Naturally, as with all cars of this age, there remains the possibility that the wings are non original.

Nick

[Jav8092D]

Hi Nick,

I'm not familiar with the rules of the day here in Australia either. However, I also own 2 Flying Standards, one of which is completely original (1947) and part the way through me restoring it. It was last registered in 1968 and has only ever had a single Lucas "D" type tail light, Our current requirements I believe are only that a car must comply with whatever standards were required of it at the time it was manufactured.
I did wonder about whether the rear guards may have been changed at some time, but for both to have been changed, it would be likely that the car would have had to have had a substantial rear shunt and there is no evidence of any significant accidents at all.
There also is no evidence of alteration to the original wiring loom to accomodate any change in lighting.
I guess it will remain a mystery the same as having no serial number on the gearbox.
Having said all that, I have ordered a new loom for the car due to the ageing condition of the wire insulation. My only option was to get one made to the 1951 pattern so I will end up with the wiring for later tail lights anyway (but not separate front side lights).

I am loathed to drill into the original panels so will work towards some slimline subtle LED lights or motorbike lights similar to those fitted to my 1939 Standard. It also has no side mirrors, be they wing or door so I need to look into that as well.

[David Morris]

Hi Jav8092D,

Yes, rather than drilling your pristine original wings, I would recommend some moterbike lights, mounted onto the rear bumper fixing bolts. As for the wing mirrors, I used a pair that mount onto the leading edges of the front doors, using a grub screw system that grips in the gap between the glass furfex and the steel outer frame. They don't require any drilling and hold well with two grub screws supplied I believe Holdens in the UK used to keep them? You could also try JCS, but they were not an original fitting?

Some form of additional rear mirrors are essential in today's traffic, as the original windscreen mirror gives a very limited view and leaves a blind spot, where traffic is overtaking you. Perhaps in the age when Javelins were new, not much went past you? I can remember in the early 1950's they were the fastest cars on the road!

All the best,

David

[Nick Webster]

I do like that someone has already come up with fitting a brake light in the back window. I've been thinking about doing this for a while and while I'm not so keen to take the car too far away from standard, this seems like an easily installed mod that done right might even be folded away when the car is at a show. I've noticed that cars seem to be sitting right on my tail in traffic queues (probably getting a better look) and it has me wondering how they can even see the low mounted brake lights on the Javelin - even if I did turbo charge them with some kind of LED bulb.

Nick

[Forumadmin]

I have additional brake lights that flash which makes them immediately seen and reacted to.