Points Pointing Me Into Trouble

[AlanBartlett]

How often should the points be changed?
I havent changed them since Ive had the engine running....

What is the correct procedure to adjust and set point gaps?

My points are currently causing trouble misfiring and spluttering and messing with the engines running. Me been thinking all the bad firing was the blocked jest of the carb but no turned out to be the points.

Still bad firing and spluttering now, went on a 60mile round trip down to a near by village where the "Seven" spent its ealier days and then went to the seaside and all the way round had to keep stopping because of the points. Which I thought was the carb jets as Ive known it to cause the same symptoms. Attempts to adjust them and clean them just seemed to make them worse and worse.

But on the good news, the slogan any road with any load holds up found the another long slow hill which is on the way to the next rally next weekend and in second gear it crawled up nicely . All I did was just sit their and let it spin up the hill that part im pleased about. Its a good feeling just sitting there and hearing and riding up the hill 2 cylinders blazing, knowing you can tackle almost any road.

[Drummond Black]

Alan, When you check the points are they a white colour. If so check or replace the condenser. Worth trying.

[george garside]

it is not just the condition of the points themselves or asDrummond has mentioned the condensor. It is essential that the whole of the points mechanism anad the inside of the distributor including bass plate & inside of the cap are totally dry & clean. Even a thin layer of muck & oily vapour or other assorted SH-one-T will cause the current to track where it shouldnt, causing misfiring.
george

[AlanBartlett]

The condensor has been replaced recently with a brand new, new old stock one. So that shouldn't be the problem and I have cleaned them with the petrol and cloth but to still no solution.

[Leo Bolter]

Alan,

I have been told by a "right up with the latest", but "more mature" electronics technician with a lifetime of experience, to always buy a NEW NEW stock capacitor (condenser) when replacing them as old ones, while unused and still in their original packaging, can like the proverbial "old Maid", actually die while being left on the shelf!

As a matter of interest, he also stated that these days very often the component that almost invariably causes a older piece of electronic equipment to fail, is bought about by a dead electrolytic capacitor somewhere in the circuit!

I myself have bought a couple of dead computers back to life by replacing all the electrolytic caps that were showing swollen ends (a bad sign!)

So, what I'm getting at is . . . . when you spy a ignition capacitor at a swop meet that's in it's neat little Lucas cardboard box, don't be tempted to buy unless you just want it to display in in your tool kit so as to impress the Concours judges!

If you need a reliable one . . and who doesn't . . . go buy a NEWLY made one.

Now, I'm definitely not a expert with things electronic . . and what I've written above is all hearsay, but it all sounds reasonable to me . . . perhaps someone out there with more expertise might like to comment . .

I do know that the signs of a faulty condenser show up as the contacts looking burnt and "scaley" (but not caused by oil on them) and having to be cleaned up pretty often. Ideally both contacts should show a matt grey surface, even after extended use.

Other points: (Ha . . a pun!)

Be careful with cleaning. Some modern points are not designed to be cleaned as the hard surface is SO thin that a wipe with a stone or emery cloth will take it off . . you then are left with the soft steel which will burn very quickly (like, in minutes sometimes!) . . you are convinced it can't be the points causing the "no sparks" because you've just cleaned them!!
If you're lucky to have the older type you can almost dress them forever, as they have a "block" of decent material on them! (grab them at the swop meet if you see any!)

Always wipe the contacts on new points with a solvent to remove any preservative oil or grease.

If possible, set the spring strip with a slight bias so as to ensure the points are held down on the base of the pivot shaft, thus preventing the points from getting out of alignment by "rising up" the shaft.

Put a small quantity of some suitable lubricant on the cam or oil wick.

Check the points gap soon after fitting new points . . . the fibre heel may have "worn in".

Be sure your feeler gauges are nice and clean!

There . . I've raved on again . . .

Cheers and good luck.
Leo

[AlanBartlett]

What I mean is its new part but kinda cross numbered from an old catalogue to a newer catalogue if that makes sense so the code number has changed but the condensor hasnt and it is brand brand new.

[Forumadmin]

Do the carbon pencil test and make sure the charge is going the right way. Make sure the ignition coil is connected the correct way around.

[Keith Andrews]

I agree with old condesors cleaning as Leo posts above
When installing new pionts, wipe by running the cardbord backing thru the pionts to clean off the factory oil..do not use abrasive...
When cleaning the insides of the dizzy, everything hast to be dry..no oil or sediments left....once cleaned with petrol or dimilar solvent , rinse off with meths or similar Alcohol..and let dry
THEN using the smallesy drop lube the parts that should be lubed only.
Never use anti moiture stuff like CRC products

If pionts show burning on the anvil side, the condenser value is to low, and visa versa if the hammer side burns.

Rotor, the spark jumps from sharp edges of the rotor , not the side, when 'cleaning the rotor file the top and bottom edges to re form sharp edges rather than file the side...thu the side may need slight light clean up

Cap: pins corrode these should be free of deposits
The critical 'spark plug ' gap is not the gap at the plug but the total gap of the plug plus the gap between rotor and cap pin. Hence if the pins are slightly worn, close the plugs slightly.There is quite a tolerance here, ie if a new cap and rotor the plug gap can be quite a bit larger than std spec tollerance.
HT leads, where these go into the cap, there hast to be good contact inside the cap....peel back insulation leaving about 1/2" of core and make sure it is seated fully in...if using conectors in side, fold the exccess back to be crimped inside the conector, or even use a copper wire pushed up inside the core, bent into a U and crimped into the conector

I have found late model 8mm HT leads fiit tight into the Bradford Cap, which I assume is similar to yours

Changing the length/size of the wire from coil to dizzy, also in rffect changes the capacitance..(not stricly true but effect is the same)..again checking hammer /anval burning will ID this, length is not critcal but exccessive over 3 or 4 " can start to influnce.

[TedAllen]

Hi Alan,
Time to throw in my pennyworth !

You can test the spark quite easily and quickly. Take out the centre (King) lead from the dizzy cap. Switch on the ignition. Hold the end of the lead about a quarter of an inch from a good earth like the body of the dizzy and , having set the points closed, flick them open with a small screwdriver. You can hold the King lead with your hand but if you're feeling a bit 'girly' use a pair of insulated pliers.
You should get a nice blue spark between the lead and body. A good spark will jump a good half-inch...like a mini bolt of lightening ! If the spark is poor, try it against the engine block or battery earth, it may be a problem with the dizzy not earthing properly.
Just to add more to the fun, a failing coil can also cause a misfire as it breaks down internally. Check to see if the body of the coil is getting really hot after a run. If so, try another one.
Good luck
Ted

[Keith Andrews]

Ted just remined me of a issue...the coil...
make sure it is a 6v if run 6v to the coil and 12v if 12v to the

By to the coil....
6v
if 6v battery
or if 12v battery with a ballist resistor or ign resistance wire between ign and coil

no 12v and no resistance wire/ballist use a 12v coil

It is not uncommon for ppl to put and engine in a boat, not realise they have the wrong coil, after 5 or 20 mins the engine dies...they clean plugs etc etc, by this time the coil has cooled, engine fires runs for another 3 to 20 minutes...and so on....and blame pionts carbs and alsorts of things

Generally the coil voltage is stamped on the bottom.

[TedAllen]

Another point, Alan. The power coming from the coil to the dizzy has to have somewhere to escape to. This of course is the body of the dizzy and back to the battery.
If your dizzy is mounted on the dynamo there is a bit more in the path it must take.. through the fixed point into the base plate, into the dizzy body, into the dynamo, into the engine block and up the engine earth cable to the chassis or directly to the battery. That's a lot of places for a bad connection due to oil or muck or paint. Chech continuity between all these joints. Try running with a jump lead between the dizzy body and the battery earth to eliminate all these places.
Check there is no continuity between the points when they are open.
When all cars had points I attended literally hundreds broken down on the road due to ignition problems. Another thing worth a look is the low tension cable into the dizzy. As the engine vibrates, this wire can break down. I have been out to cars with the cable down to one strand....easy repair !
It's not always the obvious that causes problems...I remember a Polo that kept cutting out every time it hit a bump. . I found it was down to a huge bunch of keys hanging from the ignition that were putting a strain on the contacts in the lock !
Done some work on the Javelin today...exhausted...put the split pin in the gear box flange nut. That's quite enough !
Ted
Still waiting for the spark from heaven to fall.

[TedAllen]

Another point, Alan. The power coming from the coil to the dizzy has to have somewhere to escape to. This of course is the body of the dizzy and back to the battery.
If your dizzy is mounted on the dynamo there is a bit more in the path it must take.. through the fixed point into the base plate, into the dizzy body, into the dynamo, into the engine block and up the engine earth cable to the chassis or directly to the battery. That's a lot of places for a bad connection due to oil or muck or paint. Chech continuity between all these joints. Try running with a jump lead between the dizzy body and the battery earth to eliminate all these places.
Check there is no continuity between the points when they are open.
When all cars had points I attended literally hundreds broken down on the road due to ignition problems. Another thing worth a look is the low tension cable into the dizzy. As the engine vibrates, this wire can break down. I have been out to cars with the cable down to one strand....easy repair !
It's not always the obvious that causes problems...I remember a Polo that kept cutting out every time it hit a bump. . I found it was down to a huge bunch of keys hanging from the ignition that were putting a strain on the contacts in the lock !
Done some work on the Javelin today...exhausted...put the split pin in the gear box flange nut. That's quite enough !
Ted
Still waiting for the spark from heaven to fall.

[TedAllen]

At the risk of repeating myself....Oh dear....I already have done ..bums !
Old age seems to have crept on...when did that happen?
Ted

[AlanBartlett]

It was not the points, turns out loose connection from coil to condensor fouling up running. It runs agen have yet to road test. but will keep updated

[Keith Andrews]

That's a lot of places for a bad connection due to oil or muck or paint. Chech continuity between all these joints.

Ted touches on another piont here
u know those little wshes that are sharp...we call them star washes here
They are not as one might think primarilt used as a lock washer, but rather the dig/cut thru paint and much to make good electical earths and connections.