STEERING LINK

[Moises]

I have a question about the Javelin part: "steering link". Can someone help me? Is it symmetrical, or does it have a mounting position? How is part 50553 RHD different from 52539 for LHD?

[David Morris]

Hi Moises,

Good to hear from you! Actualy, I think you are asking two questions. One is whether there is a difference between the LHD and RHD steering links and the second question is whether these steering links have 'front' and 'back' faces. I havn't got either one of the two examples with me here to answer at least one of the questions, but I am sure someone will reply asap.

What I do have is quite a lot of experience in setting the correct amount of free movement in the steering cones and we can discuss anything, if this helps?

Best regards,

David

[Srenner]

The spare I have appears to be LHD as the Intermediate Steering Arm (956, 50547) is attached, indicating it was at the LHD passenger side/the right front wheel.

There is no part number. Each end is welded to the center structure and appear to be the same part. Examining the sockets that would accept either an arm or a conical nut, all four sockets appear to be the machined same. Jowett was a low cost operation, so making one part to use in two locations makes sense.

The part appears to have no specified front or back and the geometry of the steering would make symmetry a priority. My conclusion is the part are interchangeable LHD to RHD.

[Forumadmin]

Refering to https://jowett.net/Parts/2-14-1-06%20Ja ... alogue.htm
I think the part numbers quoted by Moises were incorrect.
52539 is a tail pipe assembly and 50553 is the Steering Link
You will see the Steering Link is a different part number both for the Early model and Late model on both LHS and RHS
I would be surprised if there was no difference.
I have a day in the garage/cellar today so will have a look.
Rather than forging four different components did they weld different ends to the same center section to save cost?
Or even did they use the same ends but position them differently?

I agree with David that there are two questions that need to be answered.

Item
Description
Qty
1948
1950
1951
1952

994
Steering Link
1
50553
50553
50553
50553

†995
Steering Arm – RHS
1
52186
52667
52667
52667

996
Steering Arm – LHS
1
52185
52666
52666
52666

[Moises]

Thank you very much to everyone for your help.
Sorry, I meant part No. 52359 (No 52539). My problem is that the steering link rubs against the top of the crankcase. Also the steering is very hard. (Tires 175X16)

[David Morris]

Hi Moises,

Many thanks for your email. Let's set aside your question about whether there is a difference between the RHD and LHS Steering links. I am inclined to agree that Jowett's would have been reluctant to produced two versions, as the design of the steering seems to have been deliberately made to be either RHD or LHD, with minimal changes.The UK at the time was in an 'Export or Die' period, ( nothing changes! ).

Let's look at the problem of your stiff steering. From the tyre size that you mention, I think your tyres must be radials? Nothing wrong with that, although the steering was designed for cross plies, which were narrower and radials will give stiffer steering due to their greater contact area and some makes can foul the wheel arches, but that mostly affects the rears.

The first thing I would do is to jack up the car, so that both front tyres are off the ground. Then see if the steering can be taken 'lock to lock' easily and without any tight spots. The Javelin set-up is a super unique design and with the steering off the ground should be able to be moved freely with one finger, if all is correct.

If it takes more than one finger, attention is certainly required. Several areas to look at: Is it well greased? Are the cone nuts too tight? Is the steering box set too tight? ( This is especially true if there are tight spots at either end of the arc. ) The steering box 'play' can be adjusted from inside the cabin, at the foot of the steering column. There is a long eccentric tubular bush that can be rotated to adjust the meshing of the pinion against the folded gear inside the box and then locked by three small bolts at the foot of the steering column. Very clever and cunning! However, if adjusting remember that the wear will be less at the ends of the half-circle gear and the box can feel too tight at the ends of it's travel.

You mentioned that the steering arm is hitting the top of the crankcase. It obviously should be clear of any metal-to-metal contact. I suspect that at some time over the past 70 years the car has had a bump or hit the curb hard? I think there has been enough of a whack to distort something on the mountings or steering brackets? I had a Javelin where the steering box was completely fractured where the steering shaft goes into the box, and I didn't realise until I took the box off, as the box was plastered in grease! It's a cast assembly and doesn't like to be shocked too hard. Also, are the steering box mounting bolts tight? There are two bolts, with one head hidden away in the wheel arch. If they have worked loose, the box may be flopping about?

A word about the cone nuts. Firstly, they should be ground concentric. That is, the cone sould be a true cone and not worn elliptical, which is what happens when they get worn. They can be reground, and I suspect JCS can supply new or refurbished ones. Also, take GREAT care when tightening the cones. You need to make up a special, very thin, spanner to hold the cone nut head hexagonal and have a second ring spanner or socket to tighten the locking nut. Between the two is the locking tab washer. You MUST turn down the tabs on both the cone nut AND the locking nut. Faliure to do this will mean, sooner or later, one or other will move and the steering will lock-up solid! I have learnt this from painful experience! It took me with a long breaker bar to get them seperated! It may well be that your stiff steering is potentially caused by this starting to happen?

Another area that can cause stiffness is the track rod end ball joints. If they are the Jowett-adjustable ones, are one or both of them set too tight?

Also, if you unscrew the ball joint arms, having made a reference mark, can you move the swivel pins easily from side to side? Stiffness here can be due to a lack of grease or binding with the swivel pin bushes?

Properly set up, the Jowett steering is a delight and, compared to other makes at the time, was a clear winner.

I hope I have mentioned a few tips that might help and do please let me know how you get on with solving the problem.

Best regards,

David

[Keith Clements]

20221012_123315.jpg

The picture shows us measuring the angle of the arm attachment which seems to be the same at both ends.

The link should only be put in with the faces of the steering balls facing forward. So it does have a back and a front! We agree with Scott that there seems no difference between ends so do not understand why there was a different part number for LHD or RHD.
The link is symettrical, just the ends point off axis and should be forward pointing.

We cleaned it up and could find no part number.

The part numbers for LHD show different part numbers for the link and arms so why are these all different.

1011
Steering Link Assembly
1
52359
52359
52359

†1012
Steering Arm – LHS
1
52678
52678
52678

†1013
Steering Arm – RHS
1
52679
52679
52679

The 52359 does say assembly rather than just Steering Link, could that be the difference?
But then why are the arms different from LHD to RHD?
And why are the arms different for each side?
Scott gave me some spare arm ends so I will try those on a RHD link.

[Forumadmin]

I have checked the gap between top of engine crankcase where the bolt passes through between the two halves and bottom of steering link to be 4.3mm on Amy's Javelin.
The link passes across just behind this in a small valley so the gap is a couple of mm larger. So it would be good to check this also to see if the engine is too far back as well as being too high.
I suspect it may be the thickness of the engine mountings or location of the engine mounting plates that is causing this problem.
As David says, jack car up and try to see where the stiffness is, perhaps disconnect various components or slacken them off to try to trace the fault. If the car has not been used for a while then perhaps rust has set in. Note that the steering cones (Item 950) and steering balls (Item 964) can tighten themselves if not correctly locked by tab washers. The swivel pin yoke (item 1086) can also tighten itself.

I have had another look and cannot see any difference between left and right steering arms! But if there is then how many cars have them on incorrectly?

[Moises]

Hi Moises,

Many thanks for your email. Let's set aside your question about whether there is a difference between the RHD and LHS Steering links. I am inclined to agree that Jowett's would have been reluctant to produced two versions, as the design of the steering seems to have been deliberately made to be either RHD or LHD, with minimal changes.The UK at the time was in an 'Export or Die' period, ( nothing changes! ).

Let's look at the problem of your stiff steering. From the tyre size that you mention, I think your tyres must be radials? Nothing wrong with that, although the steering was designed for cross plies, which were narrower and radials will give stiffer steering due to their greater contact area and some makes can foul the wheel arches, but that mostly affects the rears.

The first thing I would do is to jack up the car, so that both front tyres are off the ground. Then see if the steering can be taken 'lock to lock' easily and without any tight spots. The Javelin set-up is a super unique design and with the steering off the ground should be able to be moved freely with one finger, if all is correct.

If it takes more than one finger, attention is certainly required. Several areas to look at: Is it well greased? Are the cone nuts too tight? Is the steering box set too tight? ( This is especially true if there are tight spots at either end of the arc. ) The steering box 'play' can be adjusted from inside the cabin, at the foot of the steering column. There is a long eccentric tubular bush that can be rotated to adjust the meshing of the pinion against the folded gear inside the box and then locked by three small bolts at the foot of the steering column. Very clever and cunning! However, if adjusting remember that the wear will be less at the ends of the half-circle gear and the box can feel too tight at the ends of it's travel.

You mentioned that the steering arm is hitting the top of the crankcase. It obviously should be clear of any metal-to-metal contact. I suspect that at some time over the past 70 years the car has had a bump or hit the curb hard? I think there has been enough of a whack to distort something on the mountings or steering brackets? I had a Javelin where the steering box was completely fractured where the steering shaft goes into the box, and I didn't realise until I took the box off, as the box was plastered in grease! It's a cast assembly and doesn't like to be shocked too hard. Also, are the steering box mounting bolts tight? There are two bolts, with one head hidden away in the wheel arch. If they have worked loose, the box may be flopping about?

A word about the cone nuts. Firstly, they should be ground concentric. That is, the cone sould be a true cone and not worn elliptical, which is what happens when they get worn. They can be reground, and I suspect JCS can supply new or refurbished ones. Also, take GREAT care when tightening the cones. You need to make up a special, very thin, spanner to hold the cone nut head hexagonal and have a second ring spanner or socket to tighten the locking nut. Between the two is the locking tab washer. You MUST turn down the tabs on both the cone nut AND the locking nut. Faliure to do this will mean, sooner or later, one or other will move and the steering will lock-up solid! I have learnt this from painful experience! It took me with a long breaker bar to get them seperated! It may well be that your stiff steering is potentially caused by this starting to happen?

Another area that can cause stiffness is the track rod end ball joints. If they are the Jowett-adjustable ones, are one or both of them set too tight?

Also, if you unscrew the ball joint arms, having made a reference mark, can you move the swivel pins easily from side to side? Stiffness here can be due to a lack of grease or binding with the swivel pin bushes?

Properly set up, the Jowett steering is a delight and, compared to other makes at the time, was a clear winner.

I hope I have mentioned a few tips that might help and do please let me know how you get on with solving the problem.

Best regards,

David

Hi David: Thank you very much for your answers. You really have written a very comprehensive Javelin steering tuning manual.
I have followed your instructions and, luckily, with the car raised (front wheels off the ground) and engine lowered (front mounts out) the steering can be easily turned with one finger. The problem is that, with the motor in position, the steering link rubs against the top of the crankcase.

[Moises]

I have checked the gap between top of engine crankcase where the bolt passes through between the two halves and bottom of steering link to be 4.3mm on Amy's Javelin.
The link passes across just behind this in a small valley so the gap is a couple of mm larger. So it would be good to check this also to see if the engine is too far back as well as being too high.
I suspect it may be the thickness of the engine mountings or location of the engine mounting plates that is causing this problem.
As David says, jack car up and try to see where the stiffness is, perhaps disconnect various components or slacken them off to try to trace the fault. If the car has not been used for a while then perhaps rust has set in. Note that the steering cones (Item 950) and steering balls (Item 964) can tighten themselves if not correctly locked by tab washers. The swivel pin yoke (item 1086) can also tighten itself.

I have had another look and cannot see any difference between left and right steering arms! But if there is then how many cars have them on incorrectly?

Hi Keith, Thank you for your reply. I think that maybe the problem is in the height of the front engine mounting rubber (37 mm.). If I lower the engine by removing said supports, the steering link stops rubbing.
Another question: Is it normal for the Javelin's engine to be tilted 3.5º backwards?

[Forumadmin]

download/file.php?id=7769&mode=view
from
viewtopic.php?f=102&t=5240
I will check the thickness of the original engine mounting rubber, but maybe the mounting brackets onto the engine are not correct or possibly the conical torque stop rubbers are lifting the engine. Possibly the rear gearbox mounting or the engine stay on top of clutch housing is wrong.

[David Morris]

Hi Moises,

Thank you for your reply and kind words. I think Keith has resolved, from the factory drawings, that the Javelin engine is deliberately set at an angle facing downwards towards the rear of the car. You have also confirmed, with the front wheels off the ground, that the steering components are all working correctly.

As Keith says, what remains is the condition of the engine mountings and, to me, the other possibility that the steering mounts have received a 'bump' some time in the past? As for the engine mounts, the front ones are a 'sandwich' and don't last well. They get plastered in oil and grease and go 'spongy'. If so, they may be allowing the engine to tilt forward and thus causing your problem? The rear mount is a 'doughnut' fitted inside the rear gearbox support. It's fairly well protected from oil and grease and I think this is unlikely to be the cause. It's also much more difficult to change!

As for the steering brackets, I suggest lowering the wheels so that they are taking some, but not all the weight of the front of the car. Then try moving the steering wheel from lock to lock. Does the stiffness and metal-to-metal rubbing seem consistant from side to side? If so, then I suspect the front mounts are to blame. If the steering seems tighter on one lock and easier on the opposite lock, then I suggest there is something not right with the steering mounting brackets? The steering mountings are, on one side through the steering box, and on the other side, by the brackets holding the idler. Is the long bolt holding the idler ok and not bent?

You could try raising the front of the engine with a second jack under the front of the sump and see if the metal-to-metal contact at the rear of the engine disappears, suggesting that the engine is 'drooping' at the front, due to tired front mounts. I am sure new mounts are available from JCS. Yours may look ok, but I suspect you would be surprised how much 'fatter' the new ones would be in comparison and how much you would have to lift the front of the engine to fit them? I have seen front mounts where the 'sandwich' has actually separated but look ok to a quick look over?

Hope this helps,

All the best, ( and please send us some of your sunshine...we are going to need it this winter! )

David

[Moises]

[David Morris]

Hi Moises,

Many thanks for your email and the photo. You say that the steering link touches the top of the crankcase at the extremes of it's travel. Does this mean at both extremes, ie fully right and left, or just one side?

Not having my Javelin now makes it difficult for me to be more helpful, but it would be great if someone could get underneath their Javelin and measure the gap between the chassis legs under the cylinder blocks on both sides? My guess is that your crankcase is, for some reason, sitting much higher at the rear than normal?

My guess is that the engine mounts are to blame, but checking the gaps I have mentioned above would be most helpful. I will ask here in the UK if some of my colleagues with Javelins can help?

Meanwhile, I am in awe of your photo and the lovely clean condition of your engine block! Most Javelin/Juputer owners would struggle to have their blocks as clean as yours! The valleys in the crankcase are normally stained with engine oil escaping from the notorious gasket under the Rear Timing Cover! Well done you!

I hope my colleagues will send me some measurements soon, and I will let you know the results as soon as I have them.

All the best,

David

[Keith Clements]

Moises, Previously I gave you the clearance of Amy's Javelin steering link. What is your clearance?
If the link only hits on one side it could be the track rods are not central. If it hits on both sides then it is likely the front engine mountings are too thick.