Julian Crossley's Javelin's engine let go whilst practising at Goodwood for the Members' Meeting. A desperate phone call from him secured my new spare set of Kolbenscmidt Fiesta pistons and liners that were kept for my race engine. Harry also let Julian have the heads from the engine we are building.
I brought them to Julian and have proceeded for the last 3 days putting his engine back together.
First we selected a set of con rods. Julian had used special rods and pistons but a 12 week lead time precluded a quick replacement. Standard Jowett ones were checked for balance and fitted to the new pistons making sure we got the arrows pointing to the front.
New Unibracko con rod socket bolts were fitted but subsequent turning of the engine showed they fouled the bottom of the piston so the 4 offending ones were ground down to give enough clearance. Just hope end float does not increase!
Next issue was that the high lift Piper cam caused the valve springs to close up. Recommended clearance is at least 40 thou and we were down to less than 10. Much measuring was done. Calculated valve lift is 470 thou or 11.94 mm which once losses in tappet clearance and elsewhere gave about 10mm actual lift. The clearance between valve guide and collet top hat was 12mm, so tight but should be OK. Removing spring base holder gave 1mm of extra Spring length so not quite enough to be safe, so we decided to change the spring to those used on the damaged head.
After putting these smaller springs together we thought the location was not good enough in the top hat, so reverted back to the thicker springs but took out the retaining base plate to give us 30 thou extra clearance.
Note the very thin valves used by Julian and the thicker ones used by Harry.
Goodwood blow up.
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Keith Clements
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Goodwood blow up.
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Keith Clements
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cam spec
The cam spec.
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Keith Clements
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Re: Goodwood blow up.
I thought you might like to see what happens when a valve head comes off at 7000 RPM
Hole in the piston, hole in the head, minced valve head, smashed liner....
Hole in the piston, hole in the head, minced valve head, smashed liner....
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Keith Clements
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Some of the special bits
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Keith Clements
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Re: Goodwood blow up.
Edward (Julian's son) fitting rear 4.56 axle
New pistons fitted.
The County Pistons and Westwood liners from JCS were not fitted as the oil slots in the piston were thought to cause weakness at the revs planned.
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Keith Clements
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Consumables.
The pistons that were fitted.
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Keith Clements
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Brake mods.
Pre loading torsion bar.
Clutch slave.
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Re: Goodwood Qualifying
After even more issues we managed to get the Javelin to qualify but in doing so it holed yet another piston. Some post mortems will be carried out on all failed parts in due course.
Julian with son Edward.
On the final dyno test on Thursday the head gasket failed because two studs had stripped. So I made up a couple of long studs and assembled all tools to effect a fix at the track. After a couple of failed attempts the head was holding torque and a leak was blocked with some chemical metal. This was completed less than an hour before quali. Floor panels and front were put back on with minutes to spare. Post quali diagnosis showed a collet holder top hat had failed and dropped the valve. Game over as we did not have spares to swap or rebuild engine overnight. Time for a beer.
On the final dyno test on Thursday the head gasket failed because two studs had stripped. So I made up a couple of long studs and assembled all tools to effect a fix at the track. After a couple of failed attempts the head was holding torque and a leak was blocked with some chemical metal. This was completed less than an hour before quali. Floor panels and front were put back on with minutes to spare. Post quali diagnosis showed a collet holder top hat had failed and dropped the valve. Game over as we did not have spares to swap or rebuild engine overnight. Time for a beer.
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spec
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Srenner
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Re: Goodwood blow up.
Arrrgggh!!! My heartfelt praise for the effort and teamwork. Sometimes you're the windscreen, sometimes you're the bug.
This thread had me rethinking engine builds. My Jowett motor builds have been mostly to factory spec, and often driven by cost containment for the owner. Given increased road speeds and modern driving, I think more horses might be a good idea. Lots to ponder.
This thread had me rethinking engine builds. My Jowett motor builds have been mostly to factory spec, and often driven by cost containment for the owner. Given increased road speeds and modern driving, I think more horses might be a good idea. Lots to ponder.
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Brucegirvan
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Jowett ED 6036 June-1930. Originally a long 2 tourer, converted later to fabric bodied light four.
Jowett PO5051 1929. Originally light 2. Converted to Sports style In 90’s.
Member of VSCC and LCEOS for marshalling and tours. My son (Matt) is now interested in autosolos and trials - ideal Jowett territory. He now owns VO4165, 1930 Long 2 as an oily rag road car. - Given Name: Bruce
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Re: Goodwood blow up.
A good effort. Sometimes it is worth a rethink. Interesting dyno figures for a Javelin. Looking forward to hearing about the next steps.
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Chris Spencer
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Re: Goodwood blow up.
Having played a small role in gathering parts together / fetching & carrying for the subsequent engine builds - then sometime in assisting getting the car onto the track only for the engine to let go once again - but talk over the weekend of the Goodwood Members Meeting had us thinking down the lines of pooling resources in relation to engine parts / engine builds to see where we could get to - I personally have no intentions of going racing but I wouldn't mind a reasonably hot engine to place into a full (unique) Javelin build that I currently have in the workshop
Full marks go to team 'Crossley' for dedication & determination to get the car on track at the meeting - Just the car in the pits alone turned a lot of heads and had the general public asking lots of questions about Jowett's
Full marks go to team 'Crossley' for dedication & determination to get the car on track at the meeting - Just the car in the pits alone turned a lot of heads and had the general public asking lots of questions about Jowett's
37 Jowett 8 HP - In many parts
52 Javelin Std 'Taxi Livery'
52 Javelin Std Patina project
52 Javelin Std Sports project
52 Jupiter SA - Original car - full restoration project
52 Javelin Std 'Taxi Livery'
52 Javelin Std Patina project
52 Javelin Std Sports project
52 Jupiter SA - Original car - full restoration project
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PJGD
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Re: Goodwood blow up.
For the historic events that Javelins & Jupiters are eligible for, what are the regulations with respect to originality?
For instance, I note that the Ford pistons used above are for a 74 mm bore which at 1,548 cc takes us out of the 1.5 Litre class, unless the stroke is reduced to 87 mm.
What if we had new cylinder heads made in aluminium with larger valves, or even 4 valves; would that be allowed?
There are many other things, e.g. electronic ignition, that one could do to make a more reliable engine with a bit more power, but would they restrict what events one would be eligible for?
For instance, I note that the Ford pistons used above are for a 74 mm bore which at 1,548 cc takes us out of the 1.5 Litre class, unless the stroke is reduced to 87 mm.
What if we had new cylinder heads made in aluminium with larger valves, or even 4 valves; would that be allowed?
There are many other things, e.g. electronic ignition, that one could do to make a more reliable engine with a bit more power, but would they restrict what events one would be eligible for?
Philip Dingle
aka, PJGD
aka, PJGD
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Chris Spencer
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Re: Goodwood blow up.
There is a lot that could be done but the cost of doing so is a huge restrictive factor - producing moulds for new heads would be fairly cost prohibitive - I wouldn't worry too much about increasing the cc / power output of the engine within reason - because that's what every other race team is doing with their cars - Both the Javelin & Jupiter are unfairly lumped into race classes where other models have off the the shelf access to race tuned parts with proven reliability - For instance the race parts such as forged rods / pistons / race cams etc available for BMC A & B series engines / Virtually all Ford engines - even VW air cooled engines - are readily available unlike the Jowett engine where everything has to be bespoke / produced from scratch and that's long before you start to accept the same argument with suspension & brakes on the larger volume production cars from other manufactures
37 Jowett 8 HP - In many parts
52 Javelin Std 'Taxi Livery'
52 Javelin Std Patina project
52 Javelin Std Sports project
52 Jupiter SA - Original car - full restoration project
52 Javelin Std 'Taxi Livery'
52 Javelin Std Patina project
52 Javelin Std Sports project
52 Jupiter SA - Original car - full restoration project
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Keith Clements
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Developing the Jowett engine.
As Chris says regulations, eligibility and scrutineering are a moveable feast which differ from event to event.
It has always been so. Goodwood is slightly different in that you are invited , mainly because you have a car of interest.
I have not heard of exclusion because of performance or protest there.
The point of promoting this discussion is to find out what works and develop a reliable more powerful power plant not necessarily for racing or other competition. I had enjoyed a fairly reliable 90 bhp in my Jupiter for years but the block eventually gave way. How many of us would like access to suitable, modern, higher spec components for our Jowetts?
Over the years people have tried modifications and some have worked, some have failed and some have been superseded. Whilst Jowett blocks may be used to build an engine they take a lot of checking and refurbishment but even then there is a high risk they will fail.
The same goes for heads, valve gear and most other 70 year old components.
What can we do to get 110bhp road going engine?
What new components can be used and what should we manufacture?
What should we set as a target cost?
It has always been so. Goodwood is slightly different in that you are invited , mainly because you have a car of interest.
I have not heard of exclusion because of performance or protest there.
The point of promoting this discussion is to find out what works and develop a reliable more powerful power plant not necessarily for racing or other competition. I had enjoyed a fairly reliable 90 bhp in my Jupiter for years but the block eventually gave way. How many of us would like access to suitable, modern, higher spec components for our Jowetts?
Over the years people have tried modifications and some have worked, some have failed and some have been superseded. Whilst Jowett blocks may be used to build an engine they take a lot of checking and refurbishment but even then there is a high risk they will fail.
The same goes for heads, valve gear and most other 70 year old components.
What can we do to get 110bhp road going engine?
What new components can be used and what should we manufacture?
What should we set as a target cost?
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