Hello George,
I havent done the steering yet, but found the oil pressure problem, little to no oil, turns out it had been leaking and being burnt quite alot from that leaky tappet. So put in fresh oil and going to monitor how quick it takes for the level to go down.
On the steering front,Ive re greased all the steering balls and box steering seems to be smoother now, i will go on a test run to confirm a little bit later
Pointers On Driving A 30's Jowett
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AlanBartlett
- Posts: 759
- Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2006 1:34 pm
- Your interest in the forum: 1934 Long Saloon
1935 Weasel Sports Tourer
1936 Jowett Lorry (A basket case)
1953 Jowett Bradford Lorry - Given Name: Alan
- Location: Somerset
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george garside
- Posts: 673
- Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2006 9:47 pm
- Location: formby , merseyside
Allan
the only way to keep upto date about how much in sump (having no cork float & wire) is to find nice long 'dip stick' , make sure it goes to bottom of sump - it may hit crankshaft so turn engine with flywheel whilst dipstick is in to check. put in 1 pint - withdraw & file mark on dipstick, repeat eith 2 ,3, 4, 4.5 pints. . don't let it go below 2 pints & preferably keep at least 3 in sump at all times. Fill up to 4.5 pint mark when topping up.
george
the only way to keep upto date about how much in sump (having no cork float & wire) is to find nice long 'dip stick' , make sure it goes to bottom of sump - it may hit crankshaft so turn engine with flywheel whilst dipstick is in to check. put in 1 pint - withdraw & file mark on dipstick, repeat eith 2 ,3, 4, 4.5 pints. . don't let it go below 2 pints & preferably keep at least 3 in sump at all times. Fill up to 4.5 pint mark when topping up.
george
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AlanBartlett
- Posts: 759
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- Your interest in the forum: 1934 Long Saloon
1935 Weasel Sports Tourer
1936 Jowett Lorry (A basket case)
1953 Jowett Bradford Lorry - Given Name: Alan
- Location: Somerset
Hello George,
I dabbled around with your wedge suggestion, turned out that there were already some "wedges" put in place. I think the next thing im going to do is get into contact for some track rod ball shims, they seem a little warn i think.
I dabbled around with your wedge suggestion, turned out that there were already some "wedges" put in place. I think the next thing im going to do is get into contact for some track rod ball shims, they seem a little warn i think.
"Don't Let The Sound Of Your Own Wheels Drive You Crazy" The Eagles, Take It Easy
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george garside
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AlanBartlett
- Posts: 759
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- Your interest in the forum: 1934 Long Saloon
1935 Weasel Sports Tourer
1936 Jowett Lorry (A basket case)
1953 Jowett Bradford Lorry - Given Name: Alan
- Location: Somerset
Temptation, It's the most annoying thing ever....
Right took it out again this evening, this is turning into a regular thing, I take it out for a drive around the town, and something goes wrong. Tonight the exhaust tail pipe fell off, luckily heard it picked up and bunged it on the back seat. And to add to it the dip stick cap has come adrift somewhere and fallen off. Now I'm thinking whats next....
Right took it out again this evening, this is turning into a regular thing, I take it out for a drive around the town, and something goes wrong. Tonight the exhaust tail pipe fell off, luckily heard it picked up and bunged it on the back seat. And to add to it the dip stick cap has come adrift somewhere and fallen off. Now I'm thinking whats next....
"Don't Let The Sound Of Your Own Wheels Drive You Crazy" The Eagles, Take It Easy
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Tony Fearn
- Posts: 1743
- Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2006 5:33 pm
- Your interest in the forum: Early pre-wars. Owner of 1933 'Flying Fox' 'Sarah Jane, and 1934 Short saloon 'Mary Ellen'.
- Given Name: Anthony
- Location: Clayton le Moors, Lancashire, the Premier County in the British Isles!!
Alan, see my post of 21 December 2006 about "Toe-in".
You'll need to cap the dip-stick tube somehow, otherwise there will be pressure loss in the crankcase and perhaps oil all over the engine compartment.
As far as the oil pressure showing on the gauge, - whilst the engine's running, slightly slacken off the nut which holds the end of the pipe to the back of the oil gauge and hold a duster or similar under it until you can see oil dripping on to the duster, then tighten the nut again. If there's air in the pipe there is a probability that the gauge isn't reading the actual oil pressure.
At the rear of the engine casing there is provision to adjust oil pressure by slackening the nut and screwing in or out the central part. In to increase, out to decrease. Don't forget to tighten the nut afterwards.
Don't despair.
Tony.
I thought you'd had all the tie rod and drop arm ends off to check on the state of the balls and bushes some time ago. There are no shims as far as I know, but the inner bush has a spring behind it and there's a little washer behind that. If the washer's absent or the spring is broken then the two brass bushes may not clamp the ball as tightly as they should. I have already spoken about the wear on the neck of the balls.the next thing I'm going to do is get into contact for some track rod ball shims, they seem a little worn I think.
You'll need to cap the dip-stick tube somehow, otherwise there will be pressure loss in the crankcase and perhaps oil all over the engine compartment.
As far as the oil pressure showing on the gauge, - whilst the engine's running, slightly slacken off the nut which holds the end of the pipe to the back of the oil gauge and hold a duster or similar under it until you can see oil dripping on to the duster, then tighten the nut again. If there's air in the pipe there is a probability that the gauge isn't reading the actual oil pressure.
At the rear of the engine casing there is provision to adjust oil pressure by slackening the nut and screwing in or out the central part. In to increase, out to decrease. Don't forget to tighten the nut afterwards.
Don't despair.
Tony.
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AlanBartlett
- Posts: 759
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1935 Weasel Sports Tourer
1936 Jowett Lorry (A basket case)
1953 Jowett Bradford Lorry - Given Name: Alan
- Location: Somerset
Hi Tony,
I did have the rods apart a while ago, but some seems up with them, that irratic wheel movement feels more like two shopping trolley wheels when it has its fit of movement move opposite direction, and when you turn the steering jacked up it steers fine but when you turn it on ground it seems to have gained some extra movement on the track rod, you have each bush thing each side of the ball, slide a bit and then you get the wheel turning, there is a slight delay or is this meant to be there? As for the oil pressure all sorted, it seems to be drinking more oil than petrol, but maybe thats because of its rude awakening it might need some more leak curing, certainly that dodgy tappet leakage is not spurting but still leaking a bit, I have now though cured the front timing case leak which it had acumulated from its short journey around the town.
I did have the rods apart a while ago, but some seems up with them, that irratic wheel movement feels more like two shopping trolley wheels when it has its fit of movement move opposite direction, and when you turn the steering jacked up it steers fine but when you turn it on ground it seems to have gained some extra movement on the track rod, you have each bush thing each side of the ball, slide a bit and then you get the wheel turning, there is a slight delay or is this meant to be there? As for the oil pressure all sorted, it seems to be drinking more oil than petrol, but maybe thats because of its rude awakening it might need some more leak curing, certainly that dodgy tappet leakage is not spurting but still leaking a bit, I have now though cured the front timing case leak which it had acumulated from its short journey around the town.
"Don't Let The Sound Of Your Own Wheels Drive You Crazy" The Eagles, Take It Easy
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AlanBartlett
- Posts: 759
- Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2006 1:34 pm
- Your interest in the forum: 1934 Long Saloon
1935 Weasel Sports Tourer
1936 Jowett Lorry (A basket case)
1953 Jowett Bradford Lorry - Given Name: Alan
- Location: Somerset
So I had the steering rods apart today checking again now there is some wear in the bushes, they still cup the ball, So I'm going to put an order in with spares, and Ive tightened up some of the slack that was present, but still the irratic wheel trolley like movement has only happend once since its been put back together so maybe its curing it.
On close inspection of the body work from a friend who is fasinated about the shape and how its put together found a centimental scratching in the back at the top of the roof, P Bartlett 1966, which I had never noticed before
On close inspection of the body work from a friend who is fasinated about the shape and how its put together found a centimental scratching in the back at the top of the roof, P Bartlett 1966, which I had never noticed before
"Don't Let The Sound Of Your Own Wheels Drive You Crazy" The Eagles, Take It Easy
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george garside
- Posts: 673
- Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2006 9:47 pm
- Location: formby , merseyside
steering wedges at B & Q!
just bought a pack of 14 'general purpose' hardwood wedges from B&Q for under a quid. they are about 6 inches long but the thin end if cut off to length of spring mount on front axle is precisely 1/8" tapering to nowt - must be easier than making them,
george
george
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Keith Andrews
- Posts: 941
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- Location: New Zealand
- Contact:
Your steering box...
I have several steering boxes pre war and bradford
They are basically the same except the bradford has an adjustment nut on the top of the box
The prewar is adjusted by shimms (like the end float) under the cover.
If the linkages are the same as the bradford system, with a adjustment nut on the top of the ball joint...moving the wheel, tighten these ONLY just enough to remove play, no more with front wheels off the ground.
Move steering wheel back and forth, check for play in the shaft coming out of the sterring box...there should be none
If there is ..remove the steering box
You may find that it has been re bushed some time in the past.
inspect the shaft that goes down to the linkages...should have no side movement or wear...
The bush (3/4") canbe reemed over size
the shaft is worn, get it cold metal sprayed and re ground to fit the oversize bush or visa versa , which ever is easest.
the little 'nobb' that fits in the worm drive should not be worn...this has to be punched out to do the sharft, and can be replaced 45 to 90 deg on a un worn spot...re pressed in . (I touch with the mig to make sure it is secure..just a touch spot weld)
Clean up and check the bearing at each end of the steering shaft...re use if ok replace if worn)
Check the edges of the worm, these should be square, I believe the worm can be turned down a couple /1000 to fix these edges.
Re setting up the box.
mount the steering wheel shft housing with steering wheel on in a vice
with steering box attached and reassebled and well lubed with 90 gear oil NOT GREASE !!
Adjust the shims/cover on the bottom end of the steering box 1st. till you have no end play and just feel a little drag, then back off ...
Now adjust the shims under the top plate, till u just feel a high spot of slight drag and back off...all turning the wheel lock to lock.
Replace box, steering assembly and re check for any drag and readjust.
You mayfind that a later model bradford steering box top plate with the nipple and adjustment screw will be able to replace the vintage top plate...this saves the hassle of shim adjustments here
Also the sterring box doesnt get packed with grease! this will cause a worn shaft /bush very quick...fill with 90 grear oil.
Althu the later model bradford had a 'grease nipple' this was used with a grease gun with 90 oil in NOT GREASE...this mistake has caused the demise of many a sterring box...even back in the era of these car with offical dealer service shops.
The bottom felt seal in the sterring box....
I have some boxes that have a grove for the seal and some that dont,
If u dont , head up to the local bearing shop, they will have a modern std oil seal that will fit, u may have to get a grove turns into the box housing for this... do not put in dry...smear with oil 1st.
Where tthe steering box presses onto the steering wheel shaft housing tends to leak, espec after refilling the box....I have a couple units that sometime in the past have been welded...not a good idea.
I cleaned and degreased the press areas, then smeared a little RTV silcone on the surfaces, pressed in and let set over night..no leaks
The top and end plates may or maynot have some brass shims...if so place these next to the box and plate and between the steel shims.
If no brass shims, once u have adjustment correct, disassemble, and a VERY thin smear of rtv silcone to form a gasket...use as little as possible, keeping in mind it will spread as the nuts a tightened up.
A bradford factory spec has a max of 1 1 1/2 " play in the steering wheel rim...with this amount of play, it is not a pleasure to drive great distances.
Rebuilt to factory or better, ball joints adjusted correct.. and radial tyres at least for a bradford...the old "wanders up the road" disappears.
I have several steering boxes pre war and bradford
They are basically the same except the bradford has an adjustment nut on the top of the box
The prewar is adjusted by shimms (like the end float) under the cover.
If the linkages are the same as the bradford system, with a adjustment nut on the top of the ball joint...moving the wheel, tighten these ONLY just enough to remove play, no more with front wheels off the ground.
Move steering wheel back and forth, check for play in the shaft coming out of the sterring box...there should be none
If there is ..remove the steering box
You may find that it has been re bushed some time in the past.
inspect the shaft that goes down to the linkages...should have no side movement or wear...
The bush (3/4") canbe reemed over size
the shaft is worn, get it cold metal sprayed and re ground to fit the oversize bush or visa versa , which ever is easest.
the little 'nobb' that fits in the worm drive should not be worn...this has to be punched out to do the sharft, and can be replaced 45 to 90 deg on a un worn spot...re pressed in . (I touch with the mig to make sure it is secure..just a touch spot weld)
Clean up and check the bearing at each end of the steering shaft...re use if ok replace if worn)
Check the edges of the worm, these should be square, I believe the worm can be turned down a couple /1000 to fix these edges.
Re setting up the box.
mount the steering wheel shft housing with steering wheel on in a vice
with steering box attached and reassebled and well lubed with 90 gear oil NOT GREASE !!
Adjust the shims/cover on the bottom end of the steering box 1st. till you have no end play and just feel a little drag, then back off ...
Now adjust the shims under the top plate, till u just feel a high spot of slight drag and back off...all turning the wheel lock to lock.
Replace box, steering assembly and re check for any drag and readjust.
You mayfind that a later model bradford steering box top plate with the nipple and adjustment screw will be able to replace the vintage top plate...this saves the hassle of shim adjustments here
Also the sterring box doesnt get packed with grease! this will cause a worn shaft /bush very quick...fill with 90 grear oil.
Althu the later model bradford had a 'grease nipple' this was used with a grease gun with 90 oil in NOT GREASE...this mistake has caused the demise of many a sterring box...even back in the era of these car with offical dealer service shops.
The bottom felt seal in the sterring box....
I have some boxes that have a grove for the seal and some that dont,
If u dont , head up to the local bearing shop, they will have a modern std oil seal that will fit, u may have to get a grove turns into the box housing for this... do not put in dry...smear with oil 1st.
Where tthe steering box presses onto the steering wheel shaft housing tends to leak, espec after refilling the box....I have a couple units that sometime in the past have been welded...not a good idea.
I cleaned and degreased the press areas, then smeared a little RTV silcone on the surfaces, pressed in and let set over night..no leaks
The top and end plates may or maynot have some brass shims...if so place these next to the box and plate and between the steel shims.
If no brass shims, once u have adjustment correct, disassemble, and a VERY thin smear of rtv silcone to form a gasket...use as little as possible, keeping in mind it will spread as the nuts a tightened up.
A bradford factory spec has a max of 1 1 1/2 " play in the steering wheel rim...with this amount of play, it is not a pleasure to drive great distances.
Rebuilt to factory or better, ball joints adjusted correct.. and radial tyres at least for a bradford...the old "wanders up the road" disappears.
My Spelling is Not Incorrect...It's 'Creative'
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george garside
- Posts: 673
- Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2006 9:47 pm
- Location: formby , merseyside
Keith
you are both right and wrong about pre war steering boxes. All 7hp vehicles and Eights hp cars up to & including 1939 model year were fitted with the original jowett circular rack & pinion (sometimes refered to as epicyclic) box. This also applied to vans to & including 1937 model year.
The 1938 van that was mechanically the same as the Ca Bradford used the Bishop cam box as per the Bradford. This was also used on 1940 model year cars. All pre war four cylinder vehicles used the marles-weller steering box.
hope this clarifies the situation.
george
you are both right and wrong about pre war steering boxes. All 7hp vehicles and Eights hp cars up to & including 1939 model year were fitted with the original jowett circular rack & pinion (sometimes refered to as epicyclic) box. This also applied to vans to & including 1937 model year.
The 1938 van that was mechanically the same as the Ca Bradford used the Bishop cam box as per the Bradford. This was also used on 1940 model year cars. All pre war four cylinder vehicles used the marles-weller steering box.
hope this clarifies the situation.
george
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george garside
- Posts: 673
- Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2006 9:47 pm
- Location: formby , merseyside
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AlanBartlett
- Posts: 759
- Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2006 1:34 pm
- Your interest in the forum: 1934 Long Saloon
1935 Weasel Sports Tourer
1936 Jowett Lorry (A basket case)
1953 Jowett Bradford Lorry - Given Name: Alan
- Location: Somerset
Right, the oil leak has kind of being cured I put the tappet covers back on and tightened all the various covers and it seems to have slowed. But now I have another problem, its running on one cylinder, now as i mentioned earlier about it running on one before was because of the coil, well now its switched cylinders and is now stopped the opposite one working. So later on in the week I shall order a new coil or a modern eqivalent. to guarantee its not the spare one. and since I tightened all the steering bushes, have yet to adjust the track, it has somewhat stopped the wheel wobble, Ive only had it a couple of times since. Well so far Ive driven to local villages and even the local burgerking. And seems to be plesent ride. Just got to keep an eye out on the brakes as you have to stand on them to stop quickish. I'm also now is early production of the documentary college project.
"Don't Let The Sound Of Your Own Wheels Drive You Crazy" The Eagles, Take It Easy
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Keith Andrews
- Posts: 941
- Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2006 8:11 am
- Location: New Zealand
- Contact:
One does not drive old cars in the same manner as a modern car.as you have to stand on them (brakes)to stop quickish.
a very common mistake of attitude with young (under 40) drivers of old cars.
The basic vintage was designed as a direct replacement for the horse and buggy...a time saver ..no need to catch and harness before using, small storage space, and did travel longer distances at a slightly faster ave speed with less and shorter stops if the terrain permitted. There was also far less numbers of oter vechiles on the road.
Hence, for one to drive in a relaxed and safe manner, giving one time to take in the seinery around one drives with a very large space around the vechile.
One slowed for cnrs, generally with out the need to use the brakes, cruised to a stop, only needing brakes for the last few yrds..
What my children refer to as "Granny footing" style of driving.
Very similar in style to a horse and buggy.
Drive these old cars with the mentality of the population of the time, and a whole new world of travel opens up to the person...drive as one would in the modernern mentality and one will find the experiance very stressful and will also have a very good chance of killing yourself.
My Spelling is Not Incorrect...It's 'Creative'
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ian Howell
- Posts: 963
- Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2006 10:46 am
- Your interest in the forum: From 1962 to '63, CA Bradord LLG 125 (Repaired and used).
From 1966 to '67 Black deLuxe Javelin LDF 738 (Scrapped with broken chassis)
From 1967 to '87 Black de Luxe Javelin MKC 1 (later 6469TU). (Sold as non-runner with tons of spares, 1987)
From about 1980 to '87 ex WD Jowett stationary engine. (Sold on)
From 1966 to present, 1930 Long Four Fabric Saloon, Dark Blue / Black.
Taken in a part-repaired state to the 2010 Centenary Rally, returned to a roadworthy state by 2013. - Given Name: Ian
- Location: Eastbourne, East Sussex, England
- Contact:
[quote]But now I have another problem, its running on one cylinder, now as i mentioned earlier about it running on one before was because of the coil, well now its switched cylinders and is now stopped the opposite one working. [/quote]
It is unlikely to be the coil if the fault moves around and only affects one cylinder at a time. Check the plugs are clean and gapped correctly and that the rotor arm is well 'in line' with the plug lead segments when the spark occurs. You may need to remove and re-fit the distributor body one 'notch' to one side or the other in the dynamo. Don't forget to allow for advance and retard.
Beyond that, things like loose / badly connected plug leads, 'leaking' sparks (have a look when it's dark), weak / rich mixture, and the many other points that need to be considered on older cars.
It is unlikely to be the coil if the fault moves around and only affects one cylinder at a time. Check the plugs are clean and gapped correctly and that the rotor arm is well 'in line' with the plug lead segments when the spark occurs. You may need to remove and re-fit the distributor body one 'notch' to one side or the other in the dynamo. Don't forget to allow for advance and retard.
Beyond that, things like loose / badly connected plug leads, 'leaking' sparks (have a look when it's dark), weak / rich mixture, and the many other points that need to be considered on older cars.
The devil is in the detail!