King Pins

[AlanBartlett]

How does one strip down the king pins and ball joints, I know how to do the track rod, but unsure on the kingpins and the areas around it?

[Tony Fearn]

Hello Alan,

Why do you wish to "strip down the kingpins"?

There's no need to do so unless there is excess wear resulting in an M.O.T. failure.

Just keep greasing the top and bottom bushes via the nipples on both sides.

Make sure the cotter pin nut is tight. This goes through the axle and bears on a flat area ground in the middle of the kingpin to stop it from turning or falling out. The stub axle turns on the bushes, the kingpin is locked tightly. Don't overtighten the cotter pin nut as it's just like the ones that hold the pedal shafts on a bicycle and they're easily stripped.

Jack up the car using the middle of the front axle. Take hold of a front road wheel at 6 and 12 o'clock positions. Rock it backwards and forwards.
This should show if there's excess play. If there is, then grease the top and bottom bushes and wiggle the wheel again.

If there seems to be really excess play even after greasing, then you'll have to sort them out.

Tony.

[AlanBartlett]

Hi Tony

I'd like to service them because the wheels are a lil wobbly partly because the the track rod is no set up quite right ie tracking,and because i dontt know when they were last serviced it just full of black sludgy grease at the moment. Mot Booked for tuesday and insurance sorted

[george garside]

[quote="AlanBartlett"]Hi Tony

I'd like to service them because the wheels are a lil wobbly partly because the the track rod is no set up quite right ie tracking,and because i dontt know when they were last serviced it just full of black sludgy grease at the moment. Mot Booked for tuesday and insurance sorted[/quote]

Might be worth filling grease gun with thin oil ? flushing oil ? cheapest suprmarket 20/50engine oil and pumping this through the grease nipples on the kingpins to get shut of the shit so to speak. Kepp doing this untill it oozes out fairly clean looking then do the same with grease untill new looking grease oozes out. Important to follow tony's advice & do it with axle jacked up as oil/grease is more likely to get through with weight off. It may oslo help to turn steering from side to side frequently whilst ppumping in oil/grease to help ditribution/flushing.

When testing as Tony has described it is important to ascertain tht th;e 'play' is definately in the king pins and not in the wheel bearing. (it could be a bit of both!)

george

[AlanBartlett]

Checked and re checked, pumped with oil and grease a couple times im pretty sure they are going, I'm going to still put it through the Mot and see what else will need doing then get everything ready for the second mot if need be. Wish me luck

[Keith Andrews]

No such thing as luck (unless one buys a loterry ticket)
"Luck is directly proportional to the effort one puts in"

And you are putting a heap of effort in.

Cheers

[Tony Fearn]

That's the best way Alan, and when you get the MOT report, if it hasn't passed, then you can address all the points detailed in the refusal document.

You may be pleasantly surprised though. There's a bit of leeway for the older cars on such things as kingpins etc, but if you have to sort out one or two items, then don't despair, at least you will have an actual list of things that you have to put right, and if you can zip through them within 10 days(!!) the re-test charge is quite small.

By the way, the MOT visit is a very good way of setting the brakes evenly if you have a friendly mechanic. It's all very good to set the brakes up as per the instruction book, but when you put the car back on four wheels there's always a bit of difference in braking power on each of the wheels. This in the past was subsequently 'balanced' by road testing.

When it's on the rolling brake tester the dials show how much force there is on either of the wheels of one or the other axle.

If they are slightly out of balance on an axle, then a quick twist of the brass 'butterfly' nut on the end of the brake rod should help balance the braking action on that axle.

The brass 'butterfly' nut on the brake foot pedal will 'take up' all brakes at the same time, and not individual wheels.

So grease the kingpins again just before you take her to the MOT station.

Smile broadly at the MOT tester.

Don't talk too much. Don't point out any of your percieved items of worry.

Let us know what the end result is, and if you need advice to correct any failure points then there will be help out there.

Regards,

Tony.

P.S. Always good to have your input George on these pre-war posts.

[george garside]

I thought you could opt for the old fashioned tapley meter brake test for MOT on 'old' cars on the grounds that the modern rolling road may damage elderly wire wheels, diff gears etc etc. Maybe its no longer allowed.

I used to use a particular stretch of very loose 'gravel' road for final ballancing of brakes. If all was well full emergency application at about 20mph would produce 4 more or less identical skid marks as all 4 wheels could be easily locked up on that surface. A longer skidmark on one wheel indicated it was out of kilter with the others. It worked very well particularly with the bendix cowdray brakes which sometimes had a mind of their own.
george

[Keith Andrews]

Be were that a locking wheel doesnt always mean the linkages pads are mis adjusted
A mis alighned mis shapened drum / pads can do the same.
This is usually id ed when heavey braking , not quite locking up and 1 wheel will lock.
Swapping a drum from one side to another may fix the issue
Check drums for internal roundness, and it may need scimming
or pads may need reshaping for roundness

These issues often occur after a rebuild when the drums/ pads have been mixed up between wheels and sets, or when new pads are installed without checking/machining drums

I assume the pre war mechanical set up is similar to a Bradford...
If the manual is followed by the book adjusting Bradfords they come out spot on...deviate from the manual and you will end up going in circle anmd bald.

[george garside]

[

I assume the pre war mechanical set up is similar to a Bradford...
If the manual is followed by the book adjusting Bradfords they come out spot on...deviate from the manual and you will end up going in circle anmd bald.[/quote]

Kieth

the 7hp 4 wheel brake system is completely different to Bradford being of JOwetts own design & manufacture. Adjustment is by wingnut on end of rod to each wheel + overall take up by wingnit on brake pedal. This system is not fully compensated. Early (1946) Bradfords used ame bendix cowdrey 'self servo'rod system as pre war 8 & 10 hp . MOst Bradfords used either 8" or 10" girling according to year.

Witj both Bendix & Girling systems it is absolutely vital that the expander units are free to slide (easily) on the backplate as this ensures tht both shoes recieve equal pressure in much the same way as with a hydraulic system. This of course does not apply to the 7hp brakes which are cam opperated.

george

[AlanBartlett]

Well it fail the MOT, but only on minor things, wires dangling, easy fix, exhaust to put back together as it fell apart in transit, and the brake efficencey i need to just to give the brakes more umph and stopping power, im really pleased with the fail though if that makes sense

[george garside]

[quote="AlanBartlett"]Well it fail the MOT, but only on minor things, wires dangling, easy fix, exhaust to put back together as it fell apart in transit, and the brake efficencey i need to just to give the brakes more umph and stopping power, im really pleased with the fail though if that makes sense[/quote]

Well done Allan- just a couple of thoughts re brakes assuming that they are being applied evenly as if not he would have failed them for out of balance as well as insuffiecient retardation.

1. was he pressing the pedal hard enough! testers are used to modern servo brakes that only need a twitch of the toe to apply hard. He may not have realised that pushing harder makes them work.

2. if not above (& again assuming balance ok and the linings are not too worn- ) are the linings shiny or even maybe oil stained. If shiny they can be roughed up with sandpaper to increase friction. I used to cut a few transverse grooves inb the linings with a hacksaw not very deeep - maybe about a sixtenth of an inch. this can improve the grip of the shoes.

3. are the drums badly worn - I don't know what the limit allowed is - but sometimes a combination of worn linings (smaller diameter) and worn drums (larger diameter) can add up to loss of available pressure between the two so new linings may put things back to acceptable level.


A simple way of testing the brake efficiency is to stand a normal house brick vertically on the passenger floor ( check that it is absolutely vertical with spirit level and pack under it with bits of wood if necessary) a 'crash stop' from about 20mph on a level road should result in the brick falling over which is enough stopping power for an MOT pass. - dont forget to press pedal realy hard!

thinking about it I would be inclined to try the brick test before doing anything else.

george

[AlanBartlett]

The Re Test is booked for tomorrow, done everything that was needed, still unsure on the brakes though.

[Keith Andrews]

Like mentioned above...tell the guy these are
1/ mechanical Not hydrolic brakes..therefore need more pressure than straight hydrolic
2/They are ALSO not assitted as modern brakes are.

Maybe ask him 1st if he knowns the difference between mechanical brakes and hydtolic, and what the impications are

If u have even braking, the odds are u have good brakes
Can you lock them up under heavy braking...only need to be going walking pace.