Alan, Bryan from NZ has uploaded another technical item in the 'Pre-war Album' in JowettGallery which shows a picture of the inside of the breather valve. Have a look.
Tony.
Tappet Leakage
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Tony Fearn
- Posts: 1743
- Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2006 5:33 pm
- Your interest in the forum: Early pre-wars. Owner of 1933 'Flying Fox' 'Sarah Jane, and 1934 Short saloon 'Mary Ellen'.
- Given Name: Anthony
- Location: Clayton le Moors, Lancashire, the Premier County in the British Isles!!
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AlanBartlett
- Posts: 759
- Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2006 1:34 pm
- Your interest in the forum: 1934 Long Saloon
1935 Weasel Sports Tourer
1936 Jowett Lorry (A basket case)
1953 Jowett Bradford Lorry - Given Name: Alan
- Location: Somerset
All un clogged and was all intact until I went to put it all back together again, went to pick up the 5 helicopter blades shape thing and one just fell off in my hand, a few choice words was said, lets hope jowett spares stock them.
"Don't Let The Sound Of Your Own Wheels Drive You Crazy" The Eagles, Take It Easy
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george garside
- Posts: 673
- Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2006 9:47 pm
- Location: formby , merseyside
tony
am replying from sunny spain , hows that for dedication! Will check lift on return but from memory its 12 inches using redex anad an inch or so with mercury in a vaacuum guage but i may have remembered it all wrong! the main thing for Alan to note is that it needs LIFt , i dont see how too much can either actually occur or indeed do any harm. i.e. with correctly set breather valve etc the LIFT should be about right
george
am replying from sunny spain , hows that for dedication! Will check lift on return but from memory its 12 inches using redex anad an inch or so with mercury in a vaacuum guage but i may have remembered it all wrong! the main thing for Alan to note is that it needs LIFt , i dont see how too much can either actually occur or indeed do any harm. i.e. with correctly set breather valve etc the LIFT should be about right
george
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Tony Fearn
- Posts: 1743
- Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2006 5:33 pm
- Your interest in the forum: Early pre-wars. Owner of 1933 'Flying Fox' 'Sarah Jane, and 1934 Short saloon 'Mary Ellen'.
- Given Name: Anthony
- Location: Clayton le Moors, Lancashire, the Premier County in the British Isles!!
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george garside
- Posts: 673
- Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2006 9:47 pm
- Location: formby , merseyside
Tony from memory 12 inches of redex and an inch or so of vaacuum guage mercury but could have got it wrong - am sending this from sunny spain on hols & bored!
Alan if its only one tappet leeking badly anad this continues after checking breather valve and tube the bit of brass wire as described by tony might be called for.
whilst on the subject of breather a lot of noise can come from the vapours emitting in pulses from the breather pipe. This is much reduced by squeezing end slightly in vice so it is eliptical rather than round
Alan if its only one tappet leeking badly anad this continues after checking breather valve and tube the bit of brass wire as described by tony might be called for.
whilst on the subject of breather a lot of noise can come from the vapours emitting in pulses from the breather pipe. This is much reduced by squeezing end slightly in vice so it is eliptical rather than round
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Tony Fearn
- Posts: 1743
- Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2006 5:33 pm
- Your interest in the forum: Early pre-wars. Owner of 1933 'Flying Fox' 'Sarah Jane, and 1934 Short saloon 'Mary Ellen'.
- Given Name: Anthony
- Location: Clayton le Moors, Lancashire, the Premier County in the British Isles!!
Hi George,
That's a very interesting little 'snippet' about the breather pipe orifice. Never heard it before. There must be many other little tips that have been passed on through the years. We older Jowetteers have been fortunate enough to have been guided in the past by even older Jowetteers who are no longer with us.
It's good to see that many members (worldwide) of the JowetTtalk site have been passing some of these on to Alan Bartlett to help him resurrect his dad's 1934 Long saloon.
Have you seen the post by Tim in the Javelin section regarding air filters?
The subsequent posts on this thread should stimulate some more response.
Alan: Did you receive a set of vanes for the breather from JCSpares?
Has the spurting (which was quite remarkable on Youtube) stopped now, or are you going to have to resort to the brass wire as George and I suggested?
RE. my 'Flying Fox' re-creation, all the wiring is done, and it all seems to work. Yesterday I put the tubes and tyres on the refurbished wheels that I.P sorted for me. Today I cleaned them all up so in the next few days I'll put them back on the car and then check the toe-in.
There is still rather long list of "things to do" but I'm hoping that I will have it all sorted over the winter so that I will be able to travel up to Creiff in Scotland for the 2008 NJW.
13 days to my short sojurn in the Balearics. Hope the temps are ok, and even more, - don't get bored!!
As always,
Best wishes,
Tony.
That's a very interesting little 'snippet' about the breather pipe orifice. Never heard it before. There must be many other little tips that have been passed on through the years. We older Jowetteers have been fortunate enough to have been guided in the past by even older Jowetteers who are no longer with us.
It's good to see that many members (worldwide) of the JowetTtalk site have been passing some of these on to Alan Bartlett to help him resurrect his dad's 1934 Long saloon.
Have you seen the post by Tim in the Javelin section regarding air filters?
The subsequent posts on this thread should stimulate some more response.
Alan: Did you receive a set of vanes for the breather from JCSpares?
Has the spurting (which was quite remarkable on Youtube) stopped now, or are you going to have to resort to the brass wire as George and I suggested?
RE. my 'Flying Fox' re-creation, all the wiring is done, and it all seems to work. Yesterday I put the tubes and tyres on the refurbished wheels that I.P sorted for me. Today I cleaned them all up so in the next few days I'll put them back on the car and then check the toe-in.
There is still rather long list of "things to do" but I'm hoping that I will have it all sorted over the winter so that I will be able to travel up to Creiff in Scotland for the 2008 NJW.
13 days to my short sojurn in the Balearics. Hope the temps are ok, and even more, - don't get bored!!
As always,
Best wishes,
Tony.
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AlanBartlett
- Posts: 759
- Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2006 1:34 pm
- Your interest in the forum: 1934 Long Saloon
1935 Weasel Sports Tourer
1936 Jowett Lorry (A basket case)
1953 Jowett Bradford Lorry - Given Name: Alan
- Location: Somerset
Hi Tony,
Yes JCC were able to provide brand new vanes and backing plate, just got around to putting it on it seems to have slowed the leak however is still leaking a little I think. Recently been running without the valve for now, but its now back in place. I did pause on that subject for a while as the engine started to skip and misfire and switch between cyclinders, after rining both ken rogers and geoff wills turns out the problem was my coil cause I know it was a little loose when I mounted it to the dynamo the solders had come loose. Which may have been the problem not properly earthed....BUT one thing I did mention is that if you shake it you can hear the liquid that a coil has inside if you know what I mean, one shake of my coil and it sounded dry as a bone, so replaced with a spare for now a later type coil mounted to the bulkhead for now and once again she is purring away like a tiger. As for the relief valve I will have a proper examination at the weekend, back at college now
which means less time I guess its time to make the jowett a nocturnal weekend activity ha ha.
On another note went up to beaulie auto jumble Ive got two words absolutey amazing.....
Glad to here youve completed your wiring, look forward to seeing it at the national. So whats next on the things to do after the tyres?
Yes JCC were able to provide brand new vanes and backing plate, just got around to putting it on it seems to have slowed the leak however is still leaking a little I think. Recently been running without the valve for now, but its now back in place. I did pause on that subject for a while as the engine started to skip and misfire and switch between cyclinders, after rining both ken rogers and geoff wills turns out the problem was my coil cause I know it was a little loose when I mounted it to the dynamo the solders had come loose. Which may have been the problem not properly earthed....BUT one thing I did mention is that if you shake it you can hear the liquid that a coil has inside if you know what I mean, one shake of my coil and it sounded dry as a bone, so replaced with a spare for now a later type coil mounted to the bulkhead for now and once again she is purring away like a tiger. As for the relief valve I will have a proper examination at the weekend, back at college now
which means less time I guess its time to make the jowett a nocturnal weekend activity ha ha. On another note went up to beaulie auto jumble Ive got two words absolutey amazing.....
Glad to here youve completed your wiring, look forward to seeing it at the national. So whats next on the things to do after the tyres?
"Don't Let The Sound Of Your Own Wheels Drive You Crazy" The Eagles, Take It Easy
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ian Howell
- Posts: 963
- Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2006 10:46 am
- Your interest in the forum: From 1962 to '63, CA Bradord LLG 125 (Repaired and used).
From 1966 to '67 Black deLuxe Javelin LDF 738 (Scrapped with broken chassis)
From 1967 to '87 Black de Luxe Javelin MKC 1 (later 6469TU). (Sold as non-runner with tons of spares, 1987)
From about 1980 to '87 ex WD Jowett stationary engine. (Sold on)
From 1966 to present, 1930 Long Four Fabric Saloon, Dark Blue / Black.
Taken in a part-repaired state to the 2010 Centenary Rally, returned to a roadworthy state by 2013. - Given Name: Ian
- Location: Eastbourne, East Sussex, England
- Contact:
Alan, on the subject of the ignition coil: -
I recently rebuilt a coil to incorporate the 'saddle' arrangement for mounting it on the dynamo. Alan Benewith kindly presented me with the saddle, and I already had a 1930 6 volt coil.
It is not a task to be lightly undertaken! The coil itself is surrounded by brass 'shims' (thin metal plates) to pack it out to more or less fit the outer casing, which is then filled with liquid pitch - which sets solid when cold. (Why yours appears to have a liquid in it is a mystery - it COULD rattle if the pitch did not fill the can).
I had a h*!! of a job to get the coil out in the first place - there is also a swaged-on band at the top to keep the insulator in place on the 'can' - and getting it back again was nearly as difficult.
In the interests of getting the car roadworthy, I would recommend the use of an alternative coil - even a 'modern' one if necessary. You can always go for originaity later when you have had some fun with the car.
I recently rebuilt a coil to incorporate the 'saddle' arrangement for mounting it on the dynamo. Alan Benewith kindly presented me with the saddle, and I already had a 1930 6 volt coil.
It is not a task to be lightly undertaken! The coil itself is surrounded by brass 'shims' (thin metal plates) to pack it out to more or less fit the outer casing, which is then filled with liquid pitch - which sets solid when cold. (Why yours appears to have a liquid in it is a mystery - it COULD rattle if the pitch did not fill the can).
I had a h*!! of a job to get the coil out in the first place - there is also a swaged-on band at the top to keep the insulator in place on the 'can' - and getting it back again was nearly as difficult.
In the interests of getting the car roadworthy, I would recommend the use of an alternative coil - even a 'modern' one if necessary. You can always go for originaity later when you have had some fun with the car.
The devil is in the detail!
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george garside
- Posts: 673
- Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2006 9:47 pm
- Location: formby , merseyside
-
ian Howell
- Posts: 963
- Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2006 10:46 am
- Your interest in the forum: From 1962 to '63, CA Bradord LLG 125 (Repaired and used).
From 1966 to '67 Black deLuxe Javelin LDF 738 (Scrapped with broken chassis)
From 1967 to '87 Black de Luxe Javelin MKC 1 (later 6469TU). (Sold as non-runner with tons of spares, 1987)
From about 1980 to '87 ex WD Jowett stationary engine. (Sold on)
From 1966 to present, 1930 Long Four Fabric Saloon, Dark Blue / Black.
Taken in a part-repaired state to the 2010 Centenary Rally, returned to a roadworthy state by 2013. - Given Name: Ian
- Location: Eastbourne, East Sussex, England
- Contact:
George is absolutely right - and of course you can get 6 volt motorcycle coils too. I opted for originality, and I happened to have a spare coil of the right general pattern and age.
Unless someone knows better, the way I approached the job was to cut with a junior hacksaw (narrower cut) the securing band around the insulator along the axis of the coil and then removed it like a piston ring. Then I warmed up the body carefully - not too hot, its not necessary and hot pitch would give a nasty burn. Then slide the coil and shim assembly out.
Thereafter its up to you.
Putting it back is the reverse, although I confess I did not refill the can with hot pitch. I clamped the securing band tightly with a Jubilee clip and then soft soldered it back to the body, filling the saw cut with solder.
Smooth off with a fine file and Bob's yer uncle!
It only took me about 6 weeks of odd evenings.
Unless someone knows better, the way I approached the job was to cut with a junior hacksaw (narrower cut) the securing band around the insulator along the axis of the coil and then removed it like a piston ring. Then I warmed up the body carefully - not too hot, its not necessary and hot pitch would give a nasty burn. Then slide the coil and shim assembly out.
Thereafter its up to you.
Putting it back is the reverse, although I confess I did not refill the can with hot pitch. I clamped the securing band tightly with a Jubilee clip and then soft soldered it back to the body, filling the saw cut with solder.
Smooth off with a fine file and Bob's yer uncle!
It only took me about 6 weeks of odd evenings.
The devil is in the detail!
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Tony Fearn
- Posts: 1743
- Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2006 5:33 pm
- Your interest in the forum: Early pre-wars. Owner of 1933 'Flying Fox' 'Sarah Jane, and 1934 Short saloon 'Mary Ellen'.
- Given Name: Anthony
- Location: Clayton le Moors, Lancashire, the Premier County in the British Isles!!
.It is not a task to be lightly undertaken! The coil itself is surrounded by brass 'shims' (thin metal plates) to pack it out to more or less fit the outer casing, which is then filled with liquid pitch - which sets solid when cold. (Why yours appears to have a liquid in it is a mystery - it COULD rattle if the pitch did not fill the can).
Hello Ian,
I went to "Classic car Maintenance" last week at the local College, and overheard people talking about coils.
Apparently the relatively 'modern' coils are oil-filled, and they have a little wire inside them near the top. They are mounted horizontally so that the oil cools this wire so that it doesn't burn out. (I know that the coil on my 1962 Sunbeam Rapier IIIA has the coil mounted horizontally).
Conversely, if they are mounted vertically, perhaps their life is drastically shortened.
Perhaps Pat L. or Keith A. or C. or Drummond et al would like to comment on this.
Tony.
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Keith Andrews
- Posts: 941
- Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2006 8:11 am
- Location: New Zealand
- Contact:
Horozonal or vertical that is the question..
I have heard this conservation several times chewing the fat over a few beers in workshops, car club s, car shows etc
There are arguements about oil covering ciols, cooling etc
My veiw is this
Maybe way back, mid 60s and earlier it may have been the case...
I cannot varify this by reading ant instruction pamphet or box the that these coils came with....thu from discussions it seems some brands where mounted vertical, others horozonal and others didnt matter
Modern coils, a a/c delco oil from yhe early 60s thru to the advent of HEI dizzy coils where mounted vertical...I can not remeber reading instrucyions on modern coils that these had to be mounted in any particura way
Surely if there was any issue in this matter then it would be in the manufactures installation pamphet ????
Thjere is another issue that may influence how/where a coil is mounted
The length and size of thw wire from the dizzy pionts to the coil will influnce the effience af the points...this canbe noticed over longer periods of burning of the pionts anvel or hammer...as does the codition and rating of the condenser.
Very old dizt /coils wires will also have an effect due to internal corrosson of the wire strands.
From memory the anvil burns shorten the dizzy/coil wire or increase its rating or decrease the rating of the condensor
(note the Bradford coil is mounts at an angle due to the shape of the firewall and upside down figure that one out lol)
Another issue that is not that uncommon is running a 6v coils on a 12v system and visa versa..(usually in boats) or a non ballest coil on a ballast system and visa versa... the engine runs great for 20 min even an hr, starts to miss then dies..after a while the engine fires and does the same again...because of over heating of the coil
Maybe way back, when there where lots of different types of coils, vertical or not may have been an issue
Modern coils there is no issue, but the old wifes tails remain and still live simply because of the secondary issues I mention above and are attributed to how a coils is mounted
I have heard this conservation several times chewing the fat over a few beers in workshops, car club s, car shows etc
There are arguements about oil covering ciols, cooling etc
My veiw is this
Maybe way back, mid 60s and earlier it may have been the case...
I cannot varify this by reading ant instruction pamphet or box the that these coils came with....thu from discussions it seems some brands where mounted vertical, others horozonal and others didnt matter
Modern coils, a a/c delco oil from yhe early 60s thru to the advent of HEI dizzy coils where mounted vertical...I can not remeber reading instrucyions on modern coils that these had to be mounted in any particura way
Surely if there was any issue in this matter then it would be in the manufactures installation pamphet ????
Thjere is another issue that may influence how/where a coil is mounted
The length and size of thw wire from the dizzy pionts to the coil will influnce the effience af the points...this canbe noticed over longer periods of burning of the pionts anvel or hammer...as does the codition and rating of the condenser.
Very old dizt /coils wires will also have an effect due to internal corrosson of the wire strands.
From memory the anvil burns shorten the dizzy/coil wire or increase its rating or decrease the rating of the condensor
(note the Bradford coil is mounts at an angle due to the shape of the firewall and upside down figure that one out lol)
Another issue that is not that uncommon is running a 6v coils on a 12v system and visa versa..(usually in boats) or a non ballest coil on a ballast system and visa versa... the engine runs great for 20 min even an hr, starts to miss then dies..after a while the engine fires and does the same again...because of over heating of the coil
Maybe way back, when there where lots of different types of coils, vertical or not may have been an issue
Modern coils there is no issue, but the old wifes tails remain and still live simply because of the secondary issues I mention above and are attributed to how a coils is mounted
My Spelling is Not Incorrect...It's 'Creative'