Stamped initials on pre-war Jowett engines.

[Tony Fearn]

I've been trawling through my Jowett archives recently, whilst having emptied the loft space to board it out.

In 1980, whilst at the fantastic National Jowett Rally at Middlesborough, in the North East of England, which my friends Dennis Goode and his late wife Margaret and the North East Section organised, we met a former Jowett employee who had worked on the assembly and bench testing of the pre-war Jowett engines.

I reported this in the 'Jowetteer' Vol. 25 No. 6 August 1980.

I know that there are many newer members with pre-war vehicles that perhaps didn't see that edition of the 'Jowetteer'', so perhaps they will be interested in what Wilf Lester told us at that Rally.

Your engine will probably have some initials stamped on the off-side of the engine casing near to the oil level indicator tube.

The initials belong to the following gents who set-up your engine before it left the Jowett Works.

'L' ..................... Wilfred Lester.

'W' or 'VV'........... Jack Wilkinson

'H'or 'HH'............. Harry Holmes

'A' or 'AH'............ Alf Hutchinson

'LT'..................... Luther Tiswell

Doesn't it bring you closer to the past and the people working at Jowett Cars Limited in the 30's when you know the name of the chap that sorted your engine out for the first time?

"Mary Ellen" has LT on its engine. Registered 17th March 1934. 437773

What's on yours??

We could even build an archive on this site over the next few years if pre-war owners respond.

Regards,

Tony.

[AlanBartlett]

I wondered what the random markings were,

On the 7hp thats in pieces its HH

And on the current 8hp its either HH or AH bad lighting so I will update this later to confirm...

[Leo Bolter]

Interestingly the practice of initialing the vehicle the guys worked on must have continued at least to the time when my Jupiter was made in 1951 (E1-SA-513-R, body 279-A).

I say this, because carved into the underside of the wooden door capping strips were the initials "WM". These were also to be found, as what looked like having been chalk marks on the bare aluminium of several panels when the paint had been completely removed during the restoration. Of course the body panels all had the body number punched into the metal of the flanges etc. as is the norm with Jupiters.

Another point of interest is that the metal seat pressings had a completely different number from all the body panels, i.e 104-A! . . . . did car 104-A get my car's seat? . . . or, which car was fitted with seat 513-A? I doubt the seat as found was retro-fitted, so it was most probably fitted from new at the factory!

I see in the members register there's presently no record of a car with 104-A number . . . well, if there's no longer a car, at least the seat has survived!

Regards to all, Leo

[ian Howell]

This is fascinating!

The engine on my 1930 Long Four bears the marks LT, engine No. 028133.

Just to add to the fun - are there any pictures of these chaps?

I entirely agree with Tony about being closer to the history. A friend of mine collected memorabilia from the world speed record Campbell family and occasionally I would be allowed to use the tools stamped 'MC' (Malcolm Campbell) on one of the cars owned by him. It gave a strange feeling of being watched!

[TedAllen]

Here we go...another variation...
When I took the door trims off my last 37 8hp, the inner side of the door panel was roughly painted with either initials or a name, I can't remember which....could it be the bodyshop men stamping their own identity on the cars?
Ted

[ian Howell]

This seems to be a theme.

I have noticed 'scrawls' on the inside of some panels on my Long Four, but the ones so far cannot really be described as initials, more a series of loops.

I will try to get some pictures - worth a thousand words!

IF there are initials, do we have any ideas whose they might be?

[ian Howell]

It just gets better!

On page 9 of the February Jowetteer (lots of other good stuff too - well done Ed) - there is a reference to this 'correspondence' and to a photograph published in 1951 in Jowett's "50 years of progress".

I have just been given this very document!!

How can I add the picture to this post? (Keith?)

[kemp1942]

My Eagle Coachworks special bodied 7 hp, 'Arabella' is also 'HH'.
Engine number is 4/3/6273 and she was registered 15th March 1934, just two days before 'Mary Ellen'
Ian Aitken-Kemp

[Brucegirvan]

Is there an equivalent to these initials for pre-war gearboxes? Mine have letters stamped on them and I would be interested in understanding what they mean.

J2 and C on one

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8010BBA0-B079-4122-BE08-CACE6F811510.jpeg

F12 and UU on the other. Also of note here is the occurrence of a formed oval stamp With the initial H.E.R in. Any clues? The same stamp runs across the bellhousing to engine join.

4DEBA679-6103-4966-9D9A-92495878EF29.jpeg

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[Forumadmin]

Similar lettering was used on postwar engines to marry matching parts such as con rods. This might well apply to castings such as gearbox and clutch housings since manufacturing tolerances were poor in those days and fettling was needed to get things to fit.
There may also be builder's initials on some assemblies or some stamping might indicate revision or modification record.
Some employees did recognise their stamps on some engines.

[Tony Fearn]

Incidentally, I met Luther Tiswell's daughter at one of the Bradford rallies, the one at Salts Mill if I remember correctly. She was looking around the pre-war vehicles and asking to see under the bonnets in order to find an engine which was set-up by her father, with LT stamped on the engine casing.
She came up trumps with 'Mary Ellen' and I became the proud owner of Luther's own brass-topped spirit level, used whilst he was at Jowetts. I still have it somewhere.
Tony.

[Brucegirvan]

And I managed to get to Eddie’s gearbox too - June 1930. Eddie’s engine is stamped with HH.
Top of gearbox has what appears to be a sideways Z, and the end NN35

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