Nuts And Bolts

AlanBartlett · Post by **AlanBartlett** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 10:19 pm

This is probaly a weird request but does anyone have a list of nuts and bolts which a jowett requires and their job it you get my drift kind of like a table of sizes and where they are used kind of thing just would be interested to read up on this type of thing, also I think it would be good for future reference to a new comer to restoration.

Cheers

Alan Bartlett

ian Howell · Post by **ian Howell** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 10:04 pm

As far as I can tell from my 'repairs' on my 1930 Long Four, the bodywork bolts are all BSW threads of the various sizes from 1/4" up, and the mechanical bits - engine, brakes, etc seem to be BSF - again, various sizes.

Pipework - e.g. petrol pipe, oil pressure line, grease nipples and their extensions, etc. would be BSP, again various sizes but usually 1/8"" or 1/4".

I'm not sure how much help this will be, but at least I tried - and it may prompt someone with more knowledge to give a better run down.

Good luck!

Mike Allfrey · Post by **Mike Allfrey** » Sat Apr 28, 2007 11:24 pm

Dear Bartlett Long 7,

I think you have just written yourself into a job!!

I am not yet familiar with the pre-Javelin/Jupiter scene. However, Jowett Cars Limited used a code for them, as the item of hardware's part number, giving the diameter, thread type, length (bolt).

If you go to Jowett Talk Gallery, my Technical Notes Series, Part 23, titled Jowett Cars Limited Hardware - there are ten pages of information that can probably be adapted to pre-war vehicles.

One point about automotive hardware. The motor houses used bolts, setscrews, machine screws and studs of 'abnormal' lengths. The JCL code used 1/8" increments for length identification, because quite a number of their hardware items were, for example, 1 7/8" (one-and-seven-eighths) long. The sad thing is that normal purveyors of hardware only supply hardware in 1/4" increments of length. For a car restorer, this can be extremely frustrating!

I think a project such as you describe would be very worthwhile, and I may put something together when I work on my 10 HP Four Saloon. Having looked at the car, I have noted some 'ring-in' hardware, so such a list may not be completely accurate.

Currently, I am having a running battle with hardware stores over the fact that they still sell mostly Whitworth hardware, but do not stock spanners and such to use with it.

Just as bad as Microsoft Word that doesn't have the fractions 1/16s, 1/32s and 1/64s characters in the symbols warehouse!

I flatly refuse to use SAE UNF/UNC hardware on my Jowetts (except where originally used) and turn to metric for bolt and nut situations.

Good luck with the bolt list project!

Mike Allfrey.

Keith Andrews · Post by **Keith Andrews** » Sun Apr 29, 2007 9:22 pm

I flatly refuse to use SAE UNF/UNC hardware on my Jowetts (except where originally used) and turn to metric for bolt and nut situations.

I agree, one of my Bradfors from previous ownership had a mix...a real pain the the butt...He had even used metric on the wheel studs!!!

My individual cars are metric, UN and withwoth....
Jappas, Chevy, and Jowett.

Due to unavaliblity of withworth nuts and bolts, I have used UN on sheet metal only....And ALL are UN for the sheet metal to keep consitantacy.
For easy identifcation, they are all stainless.
All drive train, Sheet metal to chassis are Whitworth.

AlanBartlett · Post by **AlanBartlett** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 9:16 pm

Mike Allfrey wrote:Dear Bartlett Long 7,

I think you have just written yourself into a job!!

I am not yet familiar with the pre-Javelin/Jupiter scene. However, Jowett Cars Limited used a code for them, as the item of hardware's part number, giving the diameter, thread type, length (bolt).

If you go to Jowett Talk Gallery, my Technical Notes Series, Part 23, titled Jowett Cars Limited Hardware - there are ten pages of information that can probably be adapted to pre-war vehicles.

One point about automotive hardware. The motor houses used bolts, setscrews, machine screws and studs of 'abnormal' lengths. The JCL code used 1/8" increments for length identification, because quite a number of their hardware items were, for example, 1 7/8" (one-and-seven-eighths) long. The sad thing is that normal purveyors of hardware only supply hardware in 1/4" increments of length. For a car restorer, this can be extremely frustrating!

I think a project such as you describe would be very worthwhile, and I may put something together when I work on my 10 HP Four Saloon. Having looked at the car, I have noted some 'ring-in' hardware, so such a list may not be completely accurate.

Currently, I am having a running battle with hardware stores over the fact that they still sell mostly Whitworth hardware, but do not stock spanners and such to use with it.

Just as bad as Microsoft Word that doesn't have the fractions 1/16s, 1/32s and 1/64s characters in the symbols warehouse!

I flatly refuse to use SAE UNF/UNC hardware on my Jowetts (except where originally used) and turn to metric for bolt and nut situations.

Good luck with the bolt list project!

Mike Allfrey.

Project accepted, I'm not sure how long it will take me what with college and car restoration and trying to find work but I will look over it and see what I can figure out, anyone know how to get onto the jowett talk gallery or have a link to the above location? I reckon it would be quite handy to have in the records

AlanBartlett · Post by **AlanBartlett** » Wed May 02, 2007 10:47 pm

Also on the subject of nuts bolts and all things like that what size is or could be a trafficator housing? Probaly a silly question but today I accidently dropped the small screw and its lost in the deep pit of my garage what a pain in the backside

Keith Andrews · Post by **Keith Andrews** » Thu May 03, 2007 12:37 am

I have serval units for spares, and in the last couple days rebuilt a couple
Could you exlain a little clearer
Which screw?
and
that what size is or could be a trafficator housing?

I have several of these, a couple off Bradford, and couple others off old Morries, Rovers...they all appear to be the same.

Mike Allfrey · Post by **Mike Allfrey** » Thu May 03, 2007 12:45 am

G'dday From The Cloudy South,

Oh dear!

I know the feeling very well. Having owned a Jaguar XJ-S V12 and having dropped things in the engine bay - never to be seen again - believe me, I know!

I would suggest taking its brother screw to a nut and bolt supplier. They usually have verniers and thread gauges and should be able to help you.

On my 10 HP Four Saloon, the LHS trafficator arm popped out smartly when I connected a battery recently. This after slumbering since October 1959! I think I will leave well alone!

I am fairly certain that the trafficator assembly is the same as that from a Javelin? If so, someone out there should have the machine screw that you need.

Tip - if you have a damaged 1/8" thread (Female - and we won't go into that again, Paul Wilks can answer that with great authority) the stripped thread can be tapped out to 4 mm and not appear too out of place. I did that with my Jupiter's windscreen frame.

Regards,

Mike Allfrey.

Keith Andrews · Post by **Keith Andrews** » Thu May 03, 2007 1:13 am

I accidently dropped the small screw and its lost in the deep pit of my garage what a pain in the backside

Vaccuum cleaner and a bit of duck tape if dropped into an inaccessable area...
A bit of tubing taped to the end and just poke around..
Or in that part of the floor of the work shop u know it is there but it is not...
vaccuum the area and check the vaccuum cleaner bag.

Was a sunny day the other weekend and dropped one of the screws that hold the wires on the back of the gauges...in the grass...vaccuum cleaner found it...and those screws are small

AlanBartlett · Post by **AlanBartlett** » Thu May 03, 2007 8:05 am

Keith Andrews wrote:
I accidently dropped the small screw and its lost in the deep pit of my garage what a pain in the backside
Vaccuum cleaner and a bit of duck tape if dropped into an inaccessable area...
A bit of tubing taped to the end and just poke around..
Or in that part of the floor of the work shop u know it is there but it is not...
vaccuum the area and check the vaccuum cleaner bag.

Was a sunny day the other weekend and dropped one of the screws that hold the wires on the back of the gauges...in the grass...vaccuum cleaner found it...and those screws are small

Tried all of the above

to no luck if could get a verneir mesurement of the brother does anyone reckon they would have one i could purchase off them? Only the local nut and bolt specialist isnt really helpful

Keith Andrews · Post by **Keith Andrews** » Thu May 03, 2007 10:44 am

Post and or email a pic of which screw

AlanBartlett · Post by **AlanBartlett** » Fri May 04, 2007 9:58 am

Problem solved thanks for the suggestions and help, I took it to my local push bike shop and it turns out its a 2BA screw and he had one in his bits and bobs, aparently they were used on really old push bikes

AlanBartlett · Post by **AlanBartlett** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 3:58 pm

Does any one know what size the gear box clamp bolts/nuts are beause looking at ot last nite I noticed that both nuts of the bolts holding the oval shaped braket together were missing

ian Howell · Post by **ian Howell** » Sat Jun 23, 2007 4:16 pm

Alan: -

If you have got the bolts then measure the diameter of their body. They will be BSF - probably 5/16" or 3/8".

Whatever, if you have to - then replace the whole bolt and nut assemblies with say UNF versions, but KEEP THE BOLTS!, as someone - me included - will have a couple of spare nuts ot suit and you can re-fit them later.

Keep us all posted!

Keith Clements · Post by **Keith Clements** » Sat Jun 23, 2007 8:46 pm

Most BSF and Whit hardware is available from Jowett Car Spares, or Namrick or other suppliers. If you are serious about owning a Jowett then acquiring Taps and Dies is a good investment. Then you can clean up or modify stock. I f bolts are too long then you can saw off to correct length; but remember to put a nut on first so hat the thread can be cleaned up.