Flywheels

[AlanBartlett]

How do I get one off? Do I need a special tool? Does anyone have any have a step by step guide to getting one off? As I need to replace it because the teeth are worn on one side, which may cause difficulty when starting it, I have a spare just need to fit it....

Alan Bartlett

[AlanBartlett]

Dont worry problem solved after a few hits with a hammer the clutch plate came flying off, now all I've gotta do is find a big enough spanner to fit the nut

[Keith Andrews]

You notice it is worn only in one place right?
When an engine stops it always tends to stop in the same position. I forget the reason why.
turning the flywheel 90 or 180* is a quick fix. Turn so there is a long run to the worn spot.

[AlanBartlett]

The warn spot was virtually 50 % of the teeth but luckily I had a spare off the other engine so am going to put that on when I find a big enough spanner

[Keith Andrews]

Check out 2nd hand tool shops...whitworth stuff.
Sure cheaper to borrow, but oince u have THE tool, when other things come up, life is very 'conveinabt'
U may have to take the engine down to the local workshop and ask if they would use a rattle gun on some stuff...tell them u will clean up the lunch room or sweep the floors...
Young guy...and if they are cool guys...generally they give their 'heart a rub' when attitudes like that walk in the door.
Also accept the fact that there are workshops who are simply arogant...dont let them get to u..just move on...its their loss.

[ian Howell]

From what Keith says, it seems a strong possibility that the car was 'decommissioned' because of starting difficulties.

It might be worth checking for gross damage - like is there any sign of metal bits (bearing metal) in the sump oil, and does the engine turn freely on the crank without 'funny' noises - and then trying the compression. This is likely to be poor due to the passage of time but a burnt out valve would mean practically none.

If the starter ring gear WAS the problem, then why go further at this stage? Get things running and then, with renewed enthusiasm (there's nothing quite like getting an old engine running again) do any work that comes up. There will be lots!

Good luck. Keep up the commentary.

[Keith Andrews]

On a postive note, these old engines, even with huge piston slap, bad valve seats, a little cpmpression, bit of spark at the right time, and something to burn, and they still bloody fire up and run!!!!
Althu it may not be good enough to run a car for long...and at he end of the day more or less a waste of time
That satisfaction...Ian says...nothing beats that!!!!
In saying that, the engine in the Bradford should have died 6 months ago/ 2500 miles and it is still runing...sort of.

[AlanBartlett]

Hmm if thats what maybe caused the engine to be decomissioned I should'nt have much problems in getting it "recommissioned" But what I intend to do is get one of the two up and running to power the seven then while thats all running rebuild the other one maybe as a spare

[Keith Andrews]

Yes thats a good plan..
If a car is off the road, sometimes one looses the incentive to get iy back on
To work around this failing of human nature...even it has a bad engine, 'box whatever...one rebuilds the spare then simply replaces.
While the spare is being rebuilt, it is a good idea to do things like a spare generator, carb, dizzy...these can be put on the old worn engine/part.
Clean up, paint
It does prevent disapointing/unexpected brake downs/performance incidents
Then it is a simple matter of changing these onto the new short block when the time comes.
Same principle for other stuff from front axle king pins, steering joints, gear box, diff, sterring box etc

[george garside]

Its not just undoing the big nut which is easy enough with a suitable socket or box spanner with a good long extension. I used to use a hefty box spanner with a 3 ft bar welded to it.

The problem is then releasing the flywheel from the crankshaft taper which having been probably inmived for very many years is likely to be reluctant to let go. There are holes in the flywheel for an extractor but this can risk cracking the flywheel. The method used by the late Roy Braddock ( & me once he'd shown me) was to use two largish hardwood wedges and a sledge hammer. Stand the crankcase up vertically & insert the wedges behind the flywheel i.e. between the crankcase & flywheel at 180 degrees spacing. Then alternately clout wedges with sledge hammer untill taper frees. Roy swore by this method & I have only used it with engine out of vehicle. It may be possible to use it with engine in situ by using heavy lump hammer instead of sledge hammer.

george

[AlanBartlett]

Thanks for that info George definetlly a method I will try....

The reason I am working on the orignal engine which is in pieces and the complete one which needs the flywheel replacement is A) to experiment on how it actually all goes together by putting the one that is in pieces back together without messing too much with the already complete one. And B) to put all the pieces back together so tbey don't get scattered.

On another subject I'm missing an accelerator pedal, which I beleive to be made of wood does any one have specifications of size or anything?

[Tony Fearn]

Alan.

Ian Priestly and I used the 'Braddock' technique George mentions to remove the much smaller crankshaft sprocket at the front of the engine of my 1927 Long two, and I was surprised that it worked. Shouldn't have been really because I.P. is a whizz at all things vintage and pre-war.

I haven't used the technique for flywheel removal though, only the 'puller method'. The large nut on the rear of the crankshaft is a 7/8 Whitworth size, the same size as the crankshaft sprocket retaining nut at the other end.

If I remember correctly, the 7/8" box or ring spanner won't fit over the clutch centering bearing on the back of the crankshaft. If it did, you would be able to prise it off whilst undoing the nut. If not then take care removing the bearing. It is a tight press fit on the shaft end, easily smashed and rather expensive to replace. (N.B. When rebuilding, make sure there are no burrs on the shaft end and offer the bearing to the shaft at 90 degrees before gently persuading it back into place using the inner ring of the ball race and a hollow drift.)

The flywheel itself can't be turned as Keith suggests because there is a keyway machined into the inside of the central boss which fits over a Woodruff key on the crankshaft end.

The starter ring will be heat-shrunk onto the flywheel rim, so if all else fails, it can be removed by an expert, turned though 180 and re-fitted.

Some pre-war fly wheels had 80 teeth and others 79 teeth I think, so if you are swapping one for the other make sure the tooth count matches or you might get the starter jamming in the future.

Another thing to watch for is that although most flywheels have the little arrow stamped on the rim to show Top Dead Centre (TDC), we have come across the odd one that when the arrow is visible at the top, the pistons are actually at Bottom Dead Centre (BDC)!

Back to the puller: - As well as the 6 clutch spring recesses on the inside of the flywheel, there are a couple of smaller holes drilled right through, one at either side of the central boss. These are drilled to take 1/2" Whitworth threads. To make a puller you will need a piece of 3/4" steel plate 6" x 3" and drill two holes 3 1/2" apart at their centres. The pair of holes should equidistant from the short ends, and on the centre line of the long axis. They need to be about 9/16 ths each.

Two 3 1/2" long pieces of 1/2" Whitworth screwed bar and nuts are also needed.

After removing the flywheel nut and washer, screw the screwed-bars into the 1/2" draw holes so that they just show through on the back side. Put the heavy iron plate over the bars and allow to rest on the crankshaft end. Put the nuts on and tighten up each side a bit at a time. If you are lucky the flywheel might come off. If not, and making sure that there is a fair bit of tension on the puller, clout the centre of the puller with a lump hammer. If it doesn't come off at this stage, perhaps you'll be able to turn the nuts a bit more and clout it again. Heat from a blowlamp onto the central boss might also help as a last resort, but do this outside with a bucket of water or fire extinguisher handy.

When the flywheel finally comes off so will the puller with it, and together they will be very heavy so watch your toes.

The accelerator pedal on my 1934 is made of metal and I think it's original. It's round, about 1 1/2" diameter with a screwed hole in the centre (not all the way through) allowing it to screw on the threaded end of the pedal linkage which goes through the floor board to the carb.. It can therefore be unscrewed to allow the linkage to be pulled though the floor boards if necessary, instead if having to remove them.

Hope the above is of help.

Tony.

[george garside]

If I remember rightly Roy Braddocks flywheel wedges were about 15 inches long x 3 or 4 inches wide tapering from about 2 inches (maybe a bit more) down to zero. Must also have been made of a very hard wood!. I can emember that they lived above one of his workbenches attached by pieces of string to hooks in the wall! For what its worth Roy was quite adamant about not using a puller.

Again for what its worth his recommended method of oil pump removal was to wait until the wife goes out & then put the crankcase on top of the gas stove on a lowish light. Once the requisite temperature was reached the oil pump just dropped out. I used this method many times & it always worked exactly as Roy described.
george




george

[george garside]

If I remember rightly Roy Braddocks flywheel wedges were about 15 inches long x 3 or 4 inches wide tapering from about 2 inches (maybe a bit more) down to zero. Must also have been made of a very hard wood!. I can emember that they lived above one of his workbenches attached by pieces of string to hooks in the wall! For what its worth Roy was quite adamant about not using a puller.

Again for what its worth his recommended method of oil pump removal was to wait until the wife goes out & then put the crankcase on top of the gas stove on a lowish light. Once the requisite temperature was reached the oil pump just dropped out. I used this method many times & it always worked exactly as Roy described.
george




george

[AlanBartlett]

How do you get the bearing out? its getting in the way of the nut and i cant put full torque on it because I dont want to damage the bearing