Javelin gearing

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jowettgeoff
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Javelin gearing

Post by jowettgeoff »

All we Javelin owners are aware of the low overall gearing, which can be a bit stressful on motorways (for both car and driver). Some owners have inserted a Laycock de Normanville overdrive unit into the drive train. Owing to the chassis cross-member, this has to be done by modifying the propshaft(s), as there is no room to mount it onto the back of the gearbox as some Jupiter owners have done. I have an overdrive on my ex-competition Javelin (BEG308), and it makes a significant difference, particularly when using 15" wheels. But there is a bit of power loss (hardly noticeable, but potentially significant in competition).
However, a different approach is to use a lower-ratio (higher geared) back axle. The standard Javelin one, at 4.875:1, gives just 15.5 mph/1000 revs with 525x16" tyres. Some years ago, Mike Smailes and I found a manufacturer who could provide alternative crownwheel/pinion sets for Salisbury axles. We each ordered a 45 tooth crownwheel with 11 tooth pinion, giving overall gearing of 4.09:1. In practice, (using Kingpin 175x16" Taxi tyres) this equates to just under 20 mph/1,000 rpm.

I'd had my modified axle sitting around in the garage for some years, but decided to fit it to OS7943 Javelin last year pending the long trip from York to Goodwood for the 2013 taxi jaunt. Although OS has a pretty standard engine, the car coped very well with the higher gearing, lolloping along the motorway at a very comfortable 70mph, loaded with myself and 2 chunky adult sons, all our camping gear, lots of tools and spares, and a large amount of alcoholic beverage! Ok, let's be honest, acceleration is hardly neck-snapping. But the car gathers speed without complaint, and the (only mildly-tuned) engine copes remarkably well.

I remember the old magazine motor tests, where 'tractive-effort' and 'Maximum-gradient in top gear' figures were given. These things mattered back in the fifties, when even the A1 was like a modern secondary country road. Today however things are very different.

In conclusion, do I prefer an overdrive or a high back axle? Well, despite possible reliability issues, I'd go for the overdrive option, which gives the best of both worlds. But I do like my 4.1 axle. Perhaps, for the Javelin, a Jupiter axle (4.55:1) is a good compromise. But watch out for wheel clearance issues, because a Jup axle is slightly wider than the Javelin. Also the Panhard rod bracket is at a slightly different angle. Finally, I confess that I've plucked the above statistics from (fading) memory, so please forgive any unintended errors :oops:

Geoff McA
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Re: Javelin gearing

Post by Drummond Black »

Geoff, I agree - The Overdrive route is the best option. Best of Both Worlds. And with a Jupiter Back Axle you can get 22.5 miles per 1000 RPM.

Drummond
Alastair Gregg
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Re: Javelin gearing

Post by Alastair Gregg »

Geoff, do you recall the name of this supplier? Are they still playing? My Jupiter axle is starting to whine and I want to be ahead of the game.
Compliments of the Season,

Alastair Gregg
jowettgeoff
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Re: Javelin gearing

Post by jowettgeoff »

Sorry Alistair, both Mike and I have scratched our heads trying to remember the firm - alas without success. It was more than 10 years ago and sadly we've both lost the original invoices. However, Mike does know of a good local transmission expert who might be able to help.

Merry Christmas!

Geoff.
Chris Spencer
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Re: Javelin gearing

Post by Chris Spencer »

Evening all - Power of the internet - two searches resolves your issues firstly:

http://www.jb-engineering.co.uk/Pages/new_parts.html - ok they are Morgan specialists but we all know Morgans run Salisbury axles - said company do a off the shelf 4.1 crown wheel & pinion set - quoted at £600 + vat - they are just up the road in Welwyn, from a certain Mr Clements Kings Langley abode

Secondly:

http://www.overdrive-repairs.co.uk/ Stock / repair / fit - Laycock overdrives and are just a few valley's to the North East (Sheffield) from Alistair's Buxton abode

Sorted - can you let me know how you get on, and has I am keen to do likewise with the recently acquired Jupiter (yes another one) :D

Have a great Christmas
37 Jowett 8 HP - In many parts
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jowettgeoff
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Re: Javelin gearing

Post by jowettgeoff »

Yes, the name JB Engineering rings a distant bell in a far-off place in my brain.
Geoff.
Keith Clements
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Re: Javelin gearing

Post by Keith Clements »

Search overdrive in JT and you get this. Many options as to where to locate.

The latest unit from OD spares will fit midships as it is lower than the earlier ones I have.

http://jowett.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f ... 54&p=16892
and
http://jowett.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f ... 54&p=16201
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Keith Clements
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Re: Javelin gearing

Post by Keith Clements »

The axle is 3HA not 7HA phase 2, so not sure if JB bits will fit. I have emailed them.
JAVELIN. 3HA-105-5 crown wheel and pinion set
Manufacturer Salisbury
Type 3HA Hypoid bevel drive
Crown Wheel/Pinion Teeth 39/8
Ratio 4.875 : 1


JUPITER
Manufacturer Salisbury
Type 3HA Hypoid bevel drive
Crown Wheel/Pinion Teeth 41/9
Ratio 4.555 : 1
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Srenner
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Re: Javelin gearing

Post by Srenner »

The 7HA parts are not compatible with the 3HA. Did this investigation some years back.
jowettgeoff
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Re: Javelin gearing

Post by jowettgeoff »

Ah well, perhaps our crown and pinions didn't come from JB after all. Incidentally, although the 45/11 sets fitted ok in Mike's Jupiter axle casing, my Javelin one needed a bit of internal machining. I'll keep searching for the supplier. They were ordered through my old company, so I'll see whether the original financial records are still in existence.
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Re: Javelin gearing

Post by David Kemp »

Find a rusty early ford escort, many years ago a KIWI found that the crown & pinion fit a Javelin. the rest of the axle is not the same. I can't remember if it ended up a 3.89 or 3.98 but it meant they could run 14 inch wheels. Who it was I can't remember.
Good memories of Bradfords.
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Re: Javelin gearing

Post by robert lintott »

Having owned several cars in the 1960s and 70s with Laycock overdrives I fully agree they are to be preferred to changing the axle ratio. At that time roads were improving and higher octane fuels meant that cars top speeds were creeping up , several new popular saloons and sports cars were up to 100 top speed -- no limits on Motorways -- but high engine rpm was a vulnerabity . The overdrive gear meant all the normal gears were retained with an ability to operate at lower revs out of town .

Changing the axle achieves a similar result but the flexibility in the lower gears is lessened and can make for poor take off and hill climbing . It is also all or nothing because if the engine charateristics dont fit , the O/D reatins the original and in effect is a 5 speed gear box with all the options whereas all that can be done in the alternative is to revert to the original axle .

In practice most O/Ds are for top gear only but by altering the electric isolating switches they can be made to work on the lower gears providing 6 ratios . Some of these will be close together , but a clutchless change from O/D third to O/D top can be a great help in traffic or when both hands should be on the wheel , even though O/D 3 may be very close to normal top.

I never had any overdrive failures on a Rapier, Triumph 2000, MGB GT and Ford Executive 3 litre mark 4, nor on a Austin Healey 100/4 M which as standard had an A 70 or A 90 box with first blanked off by the factory and an O/D.

Eventually manufacturers developed 5 and 6 speed boxes which had "overdrive" built in but without the clutchless change .

However watch out for the extra demand on brakes , tyres , wheel bearings etc at higher speds and in the vicinity of modern cars which can stop in half the distance ! Bob
jowettgeoff
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Re: Javelin gearing

Post by jowettgeoff »

On my Javelin I have the overdrive enabled on all forward gears. 8 forward gears is great fun, if not particularly useful! It's best not to be too brutal though, because the lower gears transmit a lot of torque to the unit. I have a reverse-gear interlock arrangement, because overdrives, when engaged, don't like being driven in a reverse direction. The O/D is operated with what would have been the dipswitch on a steering column arm, the type often used on Bradfords. Nothing is quite as slick however as the handy little switch built into the gear knob of my (long since deceased) Dolomite Sprint.
PJGD
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Re: Javelin gearing

Post by PJGD »

Is this UK company still in existence?

http://www.salisburytransmissions.co.uk/index.htm

They appear to be aftermarket oriented.

Philip
Philip Dingle
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Keith Clements
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Re: Javelin gearing

Post by Keith Clements »

Yes they are and they are looking into what they can supply.
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