Twin Engine Indentity
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Keith Clements
- websitedesign
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- Given Name: Keith
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Re: Twin Engine Indentity
Yep , I have already allowed him into the Gallery
skype = keithaclements ;
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ian Howell
- Posts: 963
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- Your interest in the forum: From 1962 to '63, CA Bradord LLG 125 (Repaired and used).
From 1966 to '67 Black deLuxe Javelin LDF 738 (Scrapped with broken chassis)
From 1967 to '87 Black de Luxe Javelin MKC 1 (later 6469TU). (Sold as non-runner with tons of spares, 1987)
From about 1980 to '87 ex WD Jowett stationary engine. (Sold on)
From 1966 to present, 1930 Long Four Fabric Saloon, Dark Blue / Black.
Taken in a part-repaired state to the 2010 Centenary Rally, returned to a roadworthy state by 2013. - Given Name: Ian
- Location: Eastbourne, East Sussex, England
- Contact:
Re: Twin Engine Indentity
it's a "Welcome" from Tony and a 'Welcome' from just about everyone else!
Keep us up to date with progress. It's good to see someone else 'getting places' when one's own efforts are thwarted at (nearly) every turn!
Keep us up to date with progress. It's good to see someone else 'getting places' when one's own efforts are thwarted at (nearly) every turn!
The devil is in the detail!
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julian
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- Your interest in the forum: Own vintage stationary engines & car engines including a Jowett twin. Interests include restoration of vintage mechanical and electrical equipment.
- Location: Buckden, Skipton, North Yorkshire
Re: Twin Engine Indentity
Thanks to everyone for the welcome. I had a very interesting vist to see Tony today and with his advice and loan of tools I will be able to keep moving forward. I'll keep posting my progress.
In the meantime I was having a look at the dynamo and cut-out which appears to be slightly different to the usual arrangment in that there are 3 terrminals in the ususal place, but a 4th terminal is positioned on the side. The centre terminal is rotated so that the cable entry is not facing forwards. I believe the right hand connector is the "A" terminal and the left hand the "D" terminal. Normaly the centre connector would be "F1", but what is the other terminal? I thought at first this was an earth connection, but is is insulated from the body and resistance can be measured to ground.
In the meantime I was having a look at the dynamo and cut-out which appears to be slightly different to the usual arrangment in that there are 3 terrminals in the ususal place, but a 4th terminal is positioned on the side. The centre terminal is rotated so that the cable entry is not facing forwards. I believe the right hand connector is the "A" terminal and the left hand the "D" terminal. Normaly the centre connector would be "F1", but what is the other terminal? I thought at first this was an earth connection, but is is insulated from the body and resistance can be measured to ground.
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george garside
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Re: Twin Engine Indentity
the terminal on the side of the dynamo is for the ''third brush'' which is connected centre one of the 3 terminals. this s provides a two rate charge switched by hand on the dashboard. it was very common up to the mid thirties on many cars. There is probably a wiring diagram on here somewhere
george
george
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julian
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- Location: Buckden, Skipton, North Yorkshire
Re: Twin Engine Indentity
Thanks George - the circuit must be a variant to the one I have dated 1933-34 where the centre terminal (F1) is connected to D via the dash board switch low/high charge rate.
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Forumadmin
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Re: Twin Engine Indentity
Wiring diagram in the Pitman book low and hi res available in Gallery here.
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Andrew Henshall
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1936 Jowett 7hp chassis 644663 - Given Name: Andrew
- Location: Victoria, Australia
Re: Twin Engine Indentity
Hi Julian,
I've been searching for a Lucas 12v cut-out p/n 339233 to suit my Lucas dynamo type C418A AJ1 for a while now without success. The cut-out is actually missing from my dynamo, so I don't know what the correct one looks like. According to the wiring diagram I have for my 1936 7 hp, it should have four terminals plus earth, the four terminals being F1, F2, D & A. F1 is the low charge rate or summer charge rate. F2 is the high or winter charge rate. D is the connection from the dynamo D terminal, and its connection to the switch provides the power to suit summer/winter charging. It also provides an earth for the charge (ignition) warning light. A is the output from the cut out to the ammeter and on to the battery. It feeds the light switch and auxiliary circuits such as wiper motor etc. You had worked most of this out yourself.
Can you please upload a photo showing the top of the internals of your cut-out so that I can see the part number and Model number, plus a photo of the side showing the fourth terminal? These will help me as I continue to search for a cut-out for my 7 hp.
Do you want a copy of the 1936 7 hp wiring diagram or have you obtained that already? Send me a PM and I will give you my email address so that we can swap info etc.
Best regards,
Andrew
I've been searching for a Lucas 12v cut-out p/n 339233 to suit my Lucas dynamo type C418A AJ1 for a while now without success. The cut-out is actually missing from my dynamo, so I don't know what the correct one looks like. According to the wiring diagram I have for my 1936 7 hp, it should have four terminals plus earth, the four terminals being F1, F2, D & A. F1 is the low charge rate or summer charge rate. F2 is the high or winter charge rate. D is the connection from the dynamo D terminal, and its connection to the switch provides the power to suit summer/winter charging. It also provides an earth for the charge (ignition) warning light. A is the output from the cut out to the ammeter and on to the battery. It feeds the light switch and auxiliary circuits such as wiper motor etc. You had worked most of this out yourself.
Can you please upload a photo showing the top of the internals of your cut-out so that I can see the part number and Model number, plus a photo of the side showing the fourth terminal? These will help me as I continue to search for a cut-out for my 7 hp.
Do you want a copy of the 1936 7 hp wiring diagram or have you obtained that already? Send me a PM and I will give you my email address so that we can swap info etc.
Best regards,
Andrew
Andrew Henshall
Member: JCC, JOAC & JCCA
Member: JCC, JOAC & JCCA
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julian
- Posts: 113
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- Location: Buckden, Skipton, North Yorkshire
Re: Twin Engine Indentity
Hi Andrew & thanks for the information. Photos attached as requested. The only other markings on the cut-out are on the base adjacent to the mounting screw and read 1236 437. The dynamo is marked C418A AJ3 and Lucas part number 222071. I've sent a PM.
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julian
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- Location: Buckden, Skipton, North Yorkshire
Re: Twin Engine Indentity
Back to the real enginering!
I've moved ahead with the engine strip down and now courtesty of Tony's puller have the flywheel removed. I found the best way to remove the 7/8"W retaining nut and end bearing was to use an open end spanner on the fywheel nut and slowly undo the nut which also eases off the bearing. With the puller in position and with just a few turns of the nuts the fywheel was released - shows the value of having the right tools! Photos show the sequence.
I've moved ahead with the engine strip down and now courtesty of Tony's puller have the flywheel removed. I found the best way to remove the 7/8"W retaining nut and end bearing was to use an open end spanner on the fywheel nut and slowly undo the nut which also eases off the bearing. With the puller in position and with just a few turns of the nuts the fywheel was released - shows the value of having the right tools! Photos show the sequence.
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julian
- Posts: 113
- Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2014 8:40 pm
- Your interest in the forum: Own vintage stationary engines & car engines including a Jowett twin. Interests include restoration of vintage mechanical and electrical equipment.
- Location: Buckden, Skipton, North Yorkshire
Re: Twin Engine Indentity
The next challenge was removing the starting handle dog-nut. After numerous attempts at heating and using a lever bar in the hole without sucess I finally manged to remove it by inserting a small protruding piece of steel in the hole and applied stilsons which dug into the protrusion without damaging the nut.
After that a 7/8W box spanner on the nut and a gearwheel puller finished the job at the front of the engine.
After then removing the cylinders and pistons the source of the pieces of metal in the sump plug became evident!!
After that a 7/8W box spanner on the nut and a gearwheel puller finished the job at the front of the engine.
After then removing the cylinders and pistons the source of the pieces of metal in the sump plug became evident!!
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Forumadmin
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Re: Twin Engine Indentity
Looks like the main bearings were not lapped in and did their own job on start up!
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Tony Fearn
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Re: Twin Engine Indentity
Looking good up to now Julian.
The little round key in the front end of the crankshaft has a flat on one side. The crankshaft-pulley-keyway fits on to this as you've noticed. If the key is turned 180 degrees on re-fitting it will alter the position of the pulley teeth a few thou (I don't have the data to hand), and hence the original timing will be altered. Luckily you already have a photo of the original position.
As I remember, the camshaft pulley has three slots, the purpose of which is to be able move the teeth a few thou, also for timing purposes.
If you haven't already removed this pulley, it might be as well to pop its position with reference to the key.
Also, give me a ring before you try to loosen or remove the oil pump, which you may have to do to remove the camshaft from the engine case.
Tony.
The little round key in the front end of the crankshaft has a flat on one side. The crankshaft-pulley-keyway fits on to this as you've noticed. If the key is turned 180 degrees on re-fitting it will alter the position of the pulley teeth a few thou (I don't have the data to hand), and hence the original timing will be altered. Luckily you already have a photo of the original position.
As I remember, the camshaft pulley has three slots, the purpose of which is to be able move the teeth a few thou, also for timing purposes.
If you haven't already removed this pulley, it might be as well to pop its position with reference to the key.
Also, give me a ring before you try to loosen or remove the oil pump, which you may have to do to remove the camshaft from the engine case.
Tony.
Last edited by Tony Fearn on Fri Oct 17, 2014 7:08 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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AlanBartlett
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1935 Weasel Sports Tourer
1936 Jowett Lorry (A basket case)
1953 Jowett Bradford Lorry - Given Name: Alan
- Location: Somerset
Re: Twin Engine Indentity
Hello Julian,
Welcome to the forum and the car club it looks like you are progressing well with the engine rebuild. Which will give you hours of fun!
Just out of interest what sort of puller did you use in the front timing gear? They are usually very awkward to get into.
Welcome to the forum and the car club it looks like you are progressing well with the engine rebuild. Which will give you hours of fun!
Just out of interest what sort of puller did you use in the front timing gear? They are usually very awkward to get into.
"Don't Let The Sound Of Your Own Wheels Drive You Crazy" The Eagles, Take It Easy
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julian
- Posts: 113
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- Location: Buckden, Skipton, North Yorkshire
Re: Twin Engine Indentity
Tony, I haven't removed the cam shaft gear yet, so will be sure to mark it's position before doing so. I was just thinking if I needed to remove the oil pump so will give you a call before I start on this.
Alan, I used (again thanks to Tony for the loan) a three pronged puller. The crank gear wheel seemed very solid as I tightened the puller screw, but then suddenly came loose as you might expect on a taper fitting.
I now have the crank-shaft out and I am in the process of cleaning and measuring. The main bearings journals are standard at 1.375" and the big ends at 1.5" so if they do need re-grinding this should be possible. First indications are the big ends are about 5 thou down in places.
Alan, I used (again thanks to Tony for the loan) a three pronged puller. The crank gear wheel seemed very solid as I tightened the puller screw, but then suddenly came loose as you might expect on a taper fitting.
I now have the crank-shaft out and I am in the process of cleaning and measuring. The main bearings journals are standard at 1.375" and the big ends at 1.5" so if they do need re-grinding this should be possible. First indications are the big ends are about 5 thou down in places.
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ian Howell
- Posts: 963
- Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2006 10:46 am
- Your interest in the forum: From 1962 to '63, CA Bradord LLG 125 (Repaired and used).
From 1966 to '67 Black deLuxe Javelin LDF 738 (Scrapped with broken chassis)
From 1967 to '87 Black de Luxe Javelin MKC 1 (later 6469TU). (Sold as non-runner with tons of spares, 1987)
From about 1980 to '87 ex WD Jowett stationary engine. (Sold on)
From 1966 to present, 1930 Long Four Fabric Saloon, Dark Blue / Black.
Taken in a part-repaired state to the 2010 Centenary Rally, returned to a roadworthy state by 2013. - Given Name: Ian
- Location: Eastbourne, East Sussex, England
- Contact:
Re: Twin Engine Indentity
Julian / Tony
I am watching this withgreat interest as I have promised myself that once the body is 'skinned' I am going to strip the engine. Everything - except the oil pressure - seems to be fine: no smoke, fair compression, tappets correct and quiet BUT there seems to be quite a lot of noise from the crankcase. Not the 'big end rumble' one might expect but a sort of 'chatter'.
There are a series of centre punch marks in the crankcase around the rear camshaft bearing, so maybe . . .
I am wondering if the camshaft bearings are badly worn so that the camshaft 'rattles' to and fro under the influence of the valve springs with each revolution. Any thoughts?
I am watching this withgreat interest as I have promised myself that once the body is 'skinned' I am going to strip the engine. Everything - except the oil pressure - seems to be fine: no smoke, fair compression, tappets correct and quiet BUT there seems to be quite a lot of noise from the crankcase. Not the 'big end rumble' one might expect but a sort of 'chatter'.
There are a series of centre punch marks in the crankcase around the rear camshaft bearing, so maybe . . .
I am wondering if the camshaft bearings are badly worn so that the camshaft 'rattles' to and fro under the influence of the valve springs with each revolution. Any thoughts?
The devil is in the detail!