1950 Javelin Project No Reserve Auction 25th Oct

[David Morris]

Hi all,

It's a bit of a long shot, but I may be able to throw some light on the history of this car? If the seller in the Stroud area was a Graham Stanley, then it might well have been his father's car, who was Frank Stanley. Graham had a Jupiter and may still have it?

I worked with Frank Stanley many years ago ( 1960's) and we formed a sort of Jowett club within our works. Javelins were then classed as 'bangers' and several of us owned them. It was after Jowett Engineering ceased trading in around 1964 and Jowett's were easily picked up for around £60 or less! A serious engine failure would result in the car being scrapped and another sought. There were lots about. We spent many happy lunchtimes under our respective bonnets!

We spent weekends at Charlie Dodd's Jowett spares in Dartford. Charlie had literally mounds of new Javelin spares and the lane down into his 'valley' had several new Jupiter chassis lying in the grass! I remember the roof of one of Charlie's Nissen huts was a bit sagged and he had made up a supporting pillar inside the hut from boxes of new Javelin and Jupiter pistons, four to a Hepolite box, piled one on top of the other from the ground to the roof! I purchased my first Jowett Stationary engine from Charlie ( £10) and he had a mound of what must have been 30 of them between two of his Nissen Huts! I still have it!

Frank loved his Javelin and spent many hours ( and quite a lot of money ) on its restoration.

Frank was a good friend and was a Army veteran who had been seriously wounded at the WW2 battle for Monte Casino.

I wonder if this is the car in question?

David

[Jack]

Hi Garth,

I am often in the Slough area and know Wraysbury well - I work in Uxbridge and happy to help someone out, and the workshop is only 30 mins from Wraysbury.

Do you want to pass on my details? Happy to assist, and I am sure that we can find a convenient time to take a look with a new member.

Jack.

[garthwright]

Hello Jack

I would be happy to pass on your details or give you his numbers - can you give me a call as my numbers given above - or advise your tel no or private e-mail rather than publish his contacts on the forum! Also my e-mail is garthwright'at'sky.com

[Forumadmin]

Hi Garth, you know you can send Private messages (or emails) via JowettTalk just by clicking on the user name (e.g. jack)
Also not a good idea to publish your email address on a public forum as it will be captured by bots.

[Jack]

Update - we've now been in touch with possible buyer for a chat and we are planning to drop in on Saturday morning to have a look and discuss the project, see if we can help and offer a general opinion.

Jack.

[Jack]

Further update - we have viewed the car and it is solid, but in need of complete restoration.

There is quite a bit of welding to do around the rear arches, patches have been put over a couple of rusted sections, so assume these would need cutting out and replacing. The rear arches need repair at the front edge, as with any car which has been used a lot over many years and stored outside for any extended period. Car has no brakes, so assume restoration needed there. Interior is a bit damp, and seats and floorboards etc all need reupholstery.

On the upside the car has a late engine and Meadows gearbox, so should be mechanically sound, and the engine turns freely but will not start. It is probably entirely possible to tidy up and this car would run. The chassis is solid, outriggers and cills will probably need sorting before this could be put on the road.

The dealer seems firm at £2K, which seems like more than a project in this condition has been sold for in recent months on ebay and through auction. At that price I would expect him to have it for some time, but someone might decide the late engine and gearbox and this particular car is worth it.

In summary it probably needs bare metal restoration, but wouldn't be a bad start point for someone who wants to do a ground up restoration job.

Jack.

[robert lintott]

Just for interest did you discover the reg no and or car number .? It is probably an EO PB as a 1950 ,would the Meadows box have been original at that time ? It sounds expensive at £2k . It would be easy to spend £4-5 k on welding , painting and decent bits , tyres ? , brakes etc but restoration has a therapuetic value ! Bob

[Jack]

Hi Bob,

Engine and gearbox are almost certainly not original, engine number is E2PE22467 - the features such as front grille and other spec did support it being a 1950, I think we have record of this car and it did have a plastic club sticker in the windscreen when viewed.

Edit - having reviewed details, engine number fits with 1952 registration, so it is entirely possible this is a 52. Some of the other features, such as bootlid handle without light, single piece front grille and other details would suggest an earlier car, but things like bootlid being replaced is by no means impossible as the car has definitely been well used over a number of years.

Agreed, this will be a good project for someone, but will require a lot of work to get it to MOT standard.

All tyres would certainly need replacing, though they did hold air they will be more than 10 years old and car has been stored outdoors.

Jack.

[robert lintott]

Apologies I should have read my own posts on Page 1. This car is original no MLJ 200, now with an A suffix number from Bournemouth , sold for £750 at auction last year . It is E2PD 22467 D registered in 1952 . bob

[Jack]

Interesting, the engine no is definitely E2PE22467, being so close to the chassis no is it possible we have a typo in the records, and this is a PE instead of PD? It could be either and be a 52, but the photo I have of engine no is definitely PE.

I didn't photograph the chassis number unfortunately, but if it is PE then this is a matching numbers car and perhaps adds to the value a little for those with an interest in concours.

Jack.

[robert lintott]

This topic goes back to last October when this car was for sale and one of our members --as you can see-- said it was E2PD 22467 D , presumably having looked at the brass plate on the bulkhead or the bonnet lock support . I recall that somewhere there was an item on how engine numbers were applied because the Jowett technical notes always refer to engine numbers when dating modifications rather than car numbers . It was said that engine numbers were applied as the engine was married up to the body on the line and took the body number which was then stamped on the engine , so the two corresponded .

This car is not in the 2008 Register so we cant be sure of some details. However towards the end of 1952 body numbers E2PE start to appear , the earliest in the list being E2PE 22900 D , registered in Dec 1952 . Whereas in previous years the E2 would have changed to E3 --for 1953-- E2 was retained almost right through 1953 with E3 appearing around car no. 23000. Perhaps the explanation is the build up of bodies in 1953/4 which led to the eventual failure?

It could be that the later "PE" engines were put in and marked with the body number as usual but as E2PE not E2 PD.

There are some errors in the register , for example my own Javelin is listed as E2PE 22752 whereas the Brass plate is E2PD 22752, The original green logbook I have shows the body number as E2PD 22752 but the engine number is E2PE 22752, supporting the theory above . Needless to say it is no longer in the car !

Did you look at the Brass plate ? Bob