Early Javelin Restoration
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Chris Spencer
- Posts: 1937
- Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2009 8:45 pm
- Your interest in the forum: Jowett Restoration Specialist
- Given Name: Chris
- Location: Hampshire. UK
Re: Early Javelin Restoration
So that's 98% of the running gear / mechanical / body brackets all in paint - Keith can now reassemble the running gear as sub assemblies whilst I crack on with the final welding on the bodyshell and the second panel fit
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37 Jowett 8 HP - In many parts
52 Javelin Std 'Taxi Livery'
52 Javelin Std Patina project
52 Javelin Std Sports project
52 Jupiter SA - Original car - full restoration project
52 Javelin Std 'Taxi Livery'
52 Javelin Std Patina project
52 Javelin Std Sports project
52 Jupiter SA - Original car - full restoration project
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Forumadmin
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Burning the candle at both ends.
You can see from the time of the post (nearly 1 in the morning), Chris did this 4hrs spraying AFTER work!
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Chris Spencer
- Posts: 1937
- Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2009 8:45 pm
- Your interest in the forum: Jowett Restoration Specialist
- Given Name: Chris
- Location: Hampshire. UK
Re: Early Javelin Restoration
Keith had already packed all the painted metalware up and placed it all into safe storage then had managed to put the bodyshell back into the paintshop. I spent quite a lot of time catching up with the odd bits of welding that the dipping process had revealed - some of these were just minor pinholes but with solid metal around them so just a plug of weld from the mig sorted these - a couple of splits in some of the more structural areas showed up so these were also dealt with and made good - this just left a couple of areas where the metal had to be cut out and replaced with fresh. Some time was also spent down the nearside of the car removing the residue of the original body solder that the dipping process had made run down the metalware of the shell I need to get the panels on for the second panel fitting - so the hinge plates were fastened on to the nearside B post I then spent a long time sorting the countersunk machine screws for the door hinge plates - these were covered in paint & rust so they were cleaned up on the bench grinder wire wheel - the captive plate for the hinge plates were re- tapped to ensure that all the threads were cleaned and before we knew it the day had gone - but its detail like this that makes the difference when restoring a car to this extent. Keith has been to collect the chrome - all 110 parts of it and it looks very good here is one of the rear door trims (the rest of it is all safely packed up & in safe storage) More next time
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37 Jowett 8 HP - In many parts
52 Javelin Std 'Taxi Livery'
52 Javelin Std Patina project
52 Javelin Std Sports project
52 Jupiter SA - Original car - full restoration project
52 Javelin Std 'Taxi Livery'
52 Javelin Std Patina project
52 Javelin Std Sports project
52 Jupiter SA - Original car - full restoration project
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Forumadmin
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The manual is wrong!
I have spent 3 days putting the axle back together. One thing which delayed me was reading the manual and having to do it all again when I discovered the manual was WRONG! TWICE!
I first put the shims for adjusting end float between the back plate and the bearing retaining plate (in the order they had come off). Then I checked end float which was .6mm or 24 thou.
I then read the manual. The manual said that the shims should be put between the axle end plate and the brake plate and that a paper gasket should be put either side of the bearing retaining plate. Since the drum had suffered from ingress of oil when no gaskets were present, this I duly did, by making four gaskets.
This did add the thickness of two gaskets between the bearing retainers, so I duly calculated the necessary shims. Luckily I did this by converting my metric dial micrometer reading to imperial, rather than using the conversion in the manual which was TEN times too big. Oh well, I guess in the late forties they had not got used to metric! .003" or three thou is .075mm, not .75 as in the manual.
Putting the shims behind the back plate was not a good thing to do. I did not notice that their diameter was in fact too small and they were deformed when the nuts were tightened. Anyhow the clearance was not quite right so they came off and I noticed the deformity. So after some more thinking I decided to put them where they were in the first place.
The shims were thin so they were easily flattened. Three more trial assemblies and I was happy with the end play. Note you may need to thump the end of the axle shaft with a soft heavy mallet to induce end play, but once it starts you can joggle from side to side by hand.
The other components were then added. Brakes were adjusted. A shim was added inside the compensator arm bush to reduce movement. At some stage a larger bush will need to be turned to make it a proper job, unless someone has an unworn assembly!
I first put the shims for adjusting end float between the back plate and the bearing retaining plate (in the order they had come off). Then I checked end float which was .6mm or 24 thou.
I then read the manual. The manual said that the shims should be put between the axle end plate and the brake plate and that a paper gasket should be put either side of the bearing retaining plate. Since the drum had suffered from ingress of oil when no gaskets were present, this I duly did, by making four gaskets.
This did add the thickness of two gaskets between the bearing retainers, so I duly calculated the necessary shims. Luckily I did this by converting my metric dial micrometer reading to imperial, rather than using the conversion in the manual which was TEN times too big. Oh well, I guess in the late forties they had not got used to metric! .003" or three thou is .075mm, not .75 as in the manual.
Putting the shims behind the back plate was not a good thing to do. I did not notice that their diameter was in fact too small and they were deformed when the nuts were tightened. Anyhow the clearance was not quite right so they came off and I noticed the deformity. So after some more thinking I decided to put them where they were in the first place.
The shims were thin so they were easily flattened. Three more trial assemblies and I was happy with the end play. Note you may need to thump the end of the axle shaft with a soft heavy mallet to induce end play, but once it starts you can joggle from side to side by hand.
The other components were then added. Brakes were adjusted. A shim was added inside the compensator arm bush to reduce movement. At some stage a larger bush will need to be turned to make it a proper job, unless someone has an unworn assembly!
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Chris Spencer
- Posts: 1937
- Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2009 8:45 pm
- Your interest in the forum: Jowett Restoration Specialist
- Given Name: Chris
- Location: Hampshire. UK
Re: Early Javelin Restoration
So that's the back axle built up and safely stored ready for the painted bodyshell - I concentrated on sorting a few more of the weak areas that the dipping process had shown up Like this awkward corner of the boot floor just above the rear shock absorber mounting And the rear inner wing just to the vertical face of the previous area
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37 Jowett 8 HP - In many parts
52 Javelin Std 'Taxi Livery'
52 Javelin Std Patina project
52 Javelin Std Sports project
52 Jupiter SA - Original car - full restoration project
52 Javelin Std 'Taxi Livery'
52 Javelin Std Patina project
52 Javelin Std Sports project
52 Jupiter SA - Original car - full restoration project
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Chris Spencer
- Posts: 1937
- Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2009 8:45 pm
- Your interest in the forum: Jowett Restoration Specialist
- Given Name: Chris
- Location: Hampshire. UK
Re: Early Javelin Restoration
So after a bout of careful cutting / piecing in / welding and cleaning up That's these two sorted - Jack called round and made a start on sorting the parts that we could bench assemble at the NEC Restoration Show - the many parts that make the front grille up were sorted and is one of the items that will make a decent talking point as it goes back together and we will sort a few other parts that we can build up at the show - I will be refitting the panels to the bodyshell (so I will be easy to find being the bloke that is losing his patience after refiting one of the doors for the 5th time in order to get the aperture gapping correct) 
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37 Jowett 8 HP - In many parts
52 Javelin Std 'Taxi Livery'
52 Javelin Std Patina project
52 Javelin Std Sports project
52 Jupiter SA - Original car - full restoration project
52 Javelin Std 'Taxi Livery'
52 Javelin Std Patina project
52 Javelin Std Sports project
52 Jupiter SA - Original car - full restoration project
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Chris Spencer
- Posts: 1937
- Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2009 8:45 pm
- Your interest in the forum: Jowett Restoration Specialist
- Given Name: Chris
- Location: Hampshire. UK
Re: Early Javelin Restoration
Meanwhile Keith was getting the front suspension / stub axle assemblies together
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37 Jowett 8 HP - In many parts
52 Javelin Std 'Taxi Livery'
52 Javelin Std Patina project
52 Javelin Std Sports project
52 Jupiter SA - Original car - full restoration project
52 Javelin Std 'Taxi Livery'
52 Javelin Std Patina project
52 Javelin Std Sports project
52 Jupiter SA - Original car - full restoration project
-
Chris Spencer
- Posts: 1937
- Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2009 8:45 pm
- Your interest in the forum: Jowett Restoration Specialist
- Given Name: Chris
- Location: Hampshire. UK
Re: Early Javelin Restoration
The 5 3/4" headlamps on the early Javelins are very rare - they were only ever fitted by a couple of vehicle manufactures and only from 1947 to 1949 - we had the two original lamps that came off the car but one was the subject of heavy rusting to the bowl / reflector - then we found another spare - good reflector bowl but non matching lens - so with a pair of grips I carefully pealed back the retaining edge of the bowl from around the lens on all 3 lamps The two good bowls shall be sent for resilvering and I shall refit the lenses once they are back from resilvering
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37 Jowett 8 HP - In many parts
52 Javelin Std 'Taxi Livery'
52 Javelin Std Patina project
52 Javelin Std Sports project
52 Jupiter SA - Original car - full restoration project
52 Javelin Std 'Taxi Livery'
52 Javelin Std Patina project
52 Javelin Std Sports project
52 Jupiter SA - Original car - full restoration project
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Forumadmin
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Front suspension
I have been working on the front suspension over the last week. The king pins were renovated by Drummond.
The upper link that goes through the oil box required some work as there was a lot of axial play. This was tracked down to the trunnion tube (50300) that was too long, so this was ground down until there was just pinch on the O rings. This tube may have been made in NZ. The one on the other side was shorter. Also the O rings supplied by JCS (which are modern standard size) are thinner then the originals, so extra movement is needed. The pinch was tested in the wood vice.
The O rings rotate on the seal rings and thus may wear causing some axial movement of the upper link. I suggest annual checks are made. If the original oil system is retained then wear here will result in leaking of the oil.
This pinch must be maintained when assembled into the upper arm where the sealing sleeves (50990) press onto the trunnion washer (50302). I found on one side (not the one that had the trunnion tube ground) a washer was needed to maintain this pinch which also should lock the trunnion tube to the upper link (50279). If this assembly is not tight, wear will occur , most likely on (50990) but also the proper bearing surfaces may not be being used.
The parts list shows that inner seal retainer (50298) should be removable , but I have not found that possible.
Note that this suspension is an early suspension modified for rubber at the yoke (50278) so that the bushes here are greased. This arrangement, in my opinion, may wear prematurely as there is little bearing surface. Also care will be needed not to let grease get onto the rubber bushes.
All grease nipples were tested to see they did their job.
The lower cross tubes required grooves to be made in them to transport grease.The King Pins were ground to 0.735 inches diameter which is 0.015 “ undersize of standard.
I found that the pins you took off Peter’s car required much more to be ground off making them weaker. I found two pins in much better condition which we decided to use.
The bushes were turned out of a superior high density bush bronze which is designed for low speed high strength applications giving excellent wear properties. If Peter keeps water from entering the King Pin area in the Stub Axle then he can enjoy long life from the parts. This is easier to do on the later type front suspension as I fit motorcycle front fork gaiters around the top thrust washer area. This is fixed to the upper link with a jubilee clip. My Jupiter King Pins have suffered no wear in 18 years.
Two extra grease nipples per stub axle have been fitted to assist in greasing. The lower cross tube is made from A4 Stainless Steel and Stainless Steel side washers have been included which you can use if you wish. A new 1/2 BSF Locknut is included for the top of each king pin. All the grease nipples (which are all new) have been tested so you will encounter a bit of grease on the pins.
All the bits that were removed are in a glass jar and this includes a new Shock Absorber Top Pin which I found in the workshop ( Know you had issues on the way from Switzerland ).
These will be redistributed on final assembly. Currently there is one on each side.On assembly you can decide how you position the Stainless Steel washers at the lower pin location. This all depends on the location of the spring arm.
One at the rear and two at the front or vice versa.
The upper link that goes through the oil box required some work as there was a lot of axial play. This was tracked down to the trunnion tube (50300) that was too long, so this was ground down until there was just pinch on the O rings. This tube may have been made in NZ. The one on the other side was shorter. Also the O rings supplied by JCS (which are modern standard size) are thinner then the originals, so extra movement is needed. The pinch was tested in the wood vice.
The O rings rotate on the seal rings and thus may wear causing some axial movement of the upper link. I suggest annual checks are made. If the original oil system is retained then wear here will result in leaking of the oil.
This pinch must be maintained when assembled into the upper arm where the sealing sleeves (50990) press onto the trunnion washer (50302). I found on one side (not the one that had the trunnion tube ground) a washer was needed to maintain this pinch which also should lock the trunnion tube to the upper link (50279). If this assembly is not tight, wear will occur , most likely on (50990) but also the proper bearing surfaces may not be being used.
The parts list shows that inner seal retainer (50298) should be removable , but I have not found that possible.
Note that this suspension is an early suspension modified for rubber at the yoke (50278) so that the bushes here are greased. This arrangement, in my opinion, may wear prematurely as there is little bearing surface. Also care will be needed not to let grease get onto the rubber bushes.
All grease nipples were tested to see they did their job.
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David Kemp
- Posts: 628
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- Location: Brisbane ,Australia
Re: Early Javelin Restoration
You have been quiet, is all well ? how is the restoration going?
Good memories of Bradfords.
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Chris Spencer
- Posts: 1937
- Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2009 8:45 pm
- Your interest in the forum: Jowett Restoration Specialist
- Given Name: Chris
- Location: Hampshire. UK
Re: Early Javelin Restoration
David - Unfortunatly since March I have had a very large day job project on my files - it involves working away from home and some 65 hours + per week - by the time I get home on a Friday and then catch up with the admin / home life on Saturday it leaves no time over the weekend to do anything on the restoration - the project runs on until November but I am currently looking to make changes in my day job arrangements so things could change in the coming weeks - soon as I am back in to the restoration I will let you all know - another good few weeks at it should see the car going in to primer
37 Jowett 8 HP - In many parts
52 Javelin Std 'Taxi Livery'
52 Javelin Std Patina project
52 Javelin Std Sports project
52 Jupiter SA - Original car - full restoration project
52 Javelin Std 'Taxi Livery'
52 Javelin Std Patina project
52 Javelin Std Sports project
52 Jupiter SA - Original car - full restoration project
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robert lintott
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- Your interest in the forum: Javelin E2PD 22752 D PHU317
Austin 16/6 tourer 1930
Ferrari 308 gt4 1978
Alfa Romeo Spider 2000 1978
Jaguar XJ6 diesel 2006 - Location: somerset uk
Re: Early Javelin Restoration
Chris , thanks for all your efforts in the public eye in Somerset .
re headlights , Holdens car parts have a range of 5 3/4 headlamp units and fittings , whether they would legally conform to the rules in the country where the car will reside might be a problem ? best regards Bob
re headlights , Holdens car parts have a range of 5 3/4 headlamp units and fittings , whether they would legally conform to the rules in the country where the car will reside might be a problem ? best regards Bob
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Jack
- Posts: 1113
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- Location: Herts
Re: Early Javelin Restoration
One fairly fiddly and important job was crossed off at the NEC Restoration Show - the grille was rebuilt after rechroming. Over the weekend Rupert Knapton, Peter, Cliff and Mad Ventris-Field and I all spent time rebuilding it, amongst others, and in reality for one person with a helper it is probably a whole weekend job.
I have a great picture of it completed, looking great somewhere, just got to dig it out...
Important tricks for doing the grille include using a spacer on the rivet gun to be able to get between the slats of the grille, the support for the one above gets in the way when trying to rivet the one below. Thanks to Leeds City College advice we used 4 small BA nuts taped together to give the rivet gun more reach, but it still required four pairs of hands to do some of them!
Finally there were a couple of places where a rivet was not the answer. To keep the appearance, Chris very sensibly suggested allen headed stainless bolts of the right size, which have the same appearance as the rivet but obviously are tightened up like bolts without the need for rivet gun.
Also don't forget to do all four supports behind the grille at the same time, working from the bottom upwards. We thought we were frightfully clever doing the bottom section, only to realise that the centre supports needed to be attached, and that required quite a lot of fiddling to get it fitted afterwards...
The slats are lettered in alphabetical order too (only barely visible, though having them rechromed this was identifiable) with letters hidden by the centre strip, and some are very subtly different. The bottom one has more holes, the second to bottom one is flared down a bit to allow the catches to clear, the top of the bottom section has more holes and a couple of flat sections, and the very top slat is quite different again.
We're all keeping busy and ready to swing into action, as soon as the paint is on the assembly should mean lots of visible progress happening.
Jack.
I have a great picture of it completed, looking great somewhere, just got to dig it out...
Important tricks for doing the grille include using a spacer on the rivet gun to be able to get between the slats of the grille, the support for the one above gets in the way when trying to rivet the one below. Thanks to Leeds City College advice we used 4 small BA nuts taped together to give the rivet gun more reach, but it still required four pairs of hands to do some of them!
Finally there were a couple of places where a rivet was not the answer. To keep the appearance, Chris very sensibly suggested allen headed stainless bolts of the right size, which have the same appearance as the rivet but obviously are tightened up like bolts without the need for rivet gun.
Also don't forget to do all four supports behind the grille at the same time, working from the bottom upwards. We thought we were frightfully clever doing the bottom section, only to realise that the centre supports needed to be attached, and that required quite a lot of fiddling to get it fitted afterwards...
The slats are lettered in alphabetical order too (only barely visible, though having them rechromed this was identifiable) with letters hidden by the centre strip, and some are very subtly different. The bottom one has more holes, the second to bottom one is flared down a bit to allow the catches to clear, the top of the bottom section has more holes and a couple of flat sections, and the very top slat is quite different again.
We're all keeping busy and ready to swing into action, as soon as the paint is on the assembly should mean lots of visible progress happening.
Jack.
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Jack
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- Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 11:49 am
- Location: Herts
Re: Early Javelin Restoration
This shows the grille nearly done - with the front strip attached everything suddenly pulled into line and looked really good, this is just before that point.
Jack.
Jack.
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Jack
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- Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 11:49 am
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Re: Early Javelin Restoration
During the Technical Weekend Chris was busy with Peter's car, he will provide the detail on exactly what he has been up to but the cutting and welding seems to be ongoing, the rear wing has had its front edge removed and a new piece of metal is now attached from what I can see.
Jack.
Jack.