heater pump

[Tony Fearn]

There's an interesting 'smiths water pump' in 'cars parts and vehicles' on eBay at the moment. The photos are good, so even if you don't win the auction, and have an old washing machine, perhaps you could cobble one together in the shed.
Tony.

[george garside]

similar idea to Ford 'export' water pump fitted on pre 100E sidevalve units to make heater work properly. I once had one with a rubber tyred wheel which I arranged to run on the flywheel of a Jowett 8. Should also work like this on 7s or CA Bradfords although space limited compared to 8. Perhaps as Tony has suggestd a wahing machine pump would do same job & I have seen some of these with rubber tyred wheel

[Keith Andrews]

I just recieved a email of the item..
I have been trying to figure out what would be the best method to put a heater in the Bradford....
maybe using and old mini or morris minor heater???
how where what do these work....washing machine pump?
u mean one of those old wringer washing machine pumps??
What about and electic driven one...12v
I converted 1 to 12v yrs ago as a fountain pump for the pond....

[Forumadmin]

My daughter just fitted a Mini heater to the Javelin. Works and looks fine.

[george garside]

I used a 'Tudor Twin Fan' ( aftermarket)heater with Ford export pump on CC bradford. The heater fitted on the toeboard behind the gearlever but prevented the geabox cover from being removed without first removing the heater.

With the flywheel driven pump on an '8' i found a 50s retro fit heater that was rectangular in shape , about 10 inches sqaare & about 4 inces deep. This just fitted under the scuttle above the drivers feet on the right hand side of the steering column - worked well for the driver but less so for the front passenger.Can't remember what make it was

While on the subject of heaters I often thought that the one used on Reliant 3 wheelers had possibilities as it was very slim & had 4 air outlets,i.e. 2 for feet & 2 for screen mounted on the sides rather than the back or front making the whole assembly extremely 'thin'. I toyed with the idea of fitting one of these under the back seat of a Javelin with 2 outlets firing up to the back window and two forward for the rear passengers feet. Never got round to it but it should work ok. The reliant heater may also be stuffable uner the scuttle of the Bradford but again I never got round to trying it.

ON the Jav I incorporated Horace Grimleys extra bypass plumbing which he told me should have appeared on the 1954 model. This mod has been documented probably several times in past Jowetters & completely cured the slow heater warm up.

[Keith Andrews]

On the bradford...where does the water plumb into?

[george garside]

top & one bottom water hose . there used to be a readily availble device to connect the heater hoses into top 7 botom hoses on any vehicle, it consited of a tube (to fit the bore of the heater hose) with a round plate like a penny washer at one end, that end also being threaded. A bit like a tyre valve. the stub was inserted through a hole in the top etc hose form inside, on the outside went first a washer & then a nut. Should be quite easy to fabricate something similar - hav,nt seen an original one for a long time.

[george garside]

sorry - forgot to mention - top connection better (heater warm up much quicker) fitted into the thermostat housing before the thermostat - I drilled an interference fit hole and stuck a piece of pipe in with araldite - it never leaked

[Keith Andrews]

The Bradford has that reducer thing in the top hose....so one of those and inlet hole drilled in and a 12 or 15mm Al tee welded intp place??

A similar set up on one of the 2 botom hoses?
This makes for a untidy engine bay...

What if a tee is taken off the back of inlet manifold....low down then tapped into one of the bottom hoses?

Another thought,
if tapped low into the inlet manifold then back high into the inlet manifold, due u think there would be enough cooling in the heater unit to cause movement of water by convection? same as the radiator?
This would place the heater radiator height between the inlet and out lets.

[ian Howell]

Just a thought - before you go drilling holes in the castings (which can't be filled up if you change your mind).

I feel it would be best to 'tap' into the hoses wherever possible, as these can be replaced.

The washing machine pumps are fitted to spin driers and a lot of the old twin tub machines. Ask your local domestic appliance man (or woman).

I doubt if the thermo-siphon effect would be adequate to drag water through the long narrow hoses and the heater matrix.

[george garside]

Ian is right - induction pipes used to be ten a penny but now they are expensive and good ones getting too scarce to bugger up! As far as thermo syphon is concerned the hot water will rise via the easiest route which is via the biggest pipe i.e. the induction pipe. I carried out an experiment on this before fitting a water pump & found that you could only get thermosyphon action through the heater if the radiator header tank was empty (& possibly half the radiator!) the heater worked ok in those conditions but of course the engine boiled.

under bonnet apearance can be kept tidy if pipe from bottom hose is routed UNDER the nearside pot ( using a metal pipe where it passes the exhaust) & in to the heater via the toeboard or low down on the scuttle depending on where the inlet & outlet stubs are on your chosen heater.. The top pipe from the rear of the thermostat housing to the scuttle can be kept very short, just allowing enough slack for the rock of the engine at idle.

[Keith Andrews]

Forgive my ignorance, Im getting to grips with how the sytyem actually works..looking at it I realise tapping into the wrong places could very well interfer with flow and cooling.

I carried out an experiment on this before fitting a water pump & found that you could only get thermosyphon action through the heater if the radiator header tank was empty (& possibly half the radiator!) the heater worked ok in those conditions but of course the engine boiled

I knew one of you guys would have had a 'play'... excellent info

"induction pipes"

Thats the reducer fitting in the middle of the top hose?
I assume this is an important part of the system....with the top pipe suddenly increasing in volume, this would induce a low pressure area and in effect increase flow... even thu the system is not presurised..that correct?
(t1+v1)/p1 =(t2+ v2)/p2

The top pipe from the rear of the thermostat housing to the scuttle can be kept very short,

Could this be tapped directly from the inlet manifold?

induction pipes used to be ten a penny but now they are expensive and good ones getting too scarce to bugger up!

I wasthinking in terms of
1/taking one of the many spare I have here, then AL weld a tap into the side...a minor operation to remove re weld and machine smooth later.
2/, prefered, make one, couple pieces of pipe the right ID, weld up and turn down on the lathe.
Far easier (ands reliable) than tapping into hoses valcanising etc.
And similar with the bottom hose.

[george garside]

what I am refering to as the induction pipe is what you are calling the inlet manifold!

Easier and safer to tap into rear of thermostat housing i.e. the small casting mounted on top of the induction pipe to which one end of the top hose is atatched. no need for metal section to join two different diameters of top hose as moulded top hoses are, I understand, readily available from JCC spares. 'tapping' into bottom hose very easy if you can find adapter made for that purpose, no need for vulcaanising as the thing just bolts together .

[Keith Andrews]

what I am refering to as the induction pipe is what you are calling the inlet manifold!

EVERYTHING falls into place now

Trunk/boot
Fender /gaurd
wrist pin/gudgen
induction pipe/inlet manifold/valley cover

Thanks.

[David Morris]

Hi there,

Being a Javelin man myself, can I offer a thought?

A long time ago ( around 1963 and before I bought my first Javelin for £90 ), I had a 1937 Ford 8 which was my first car, and had a thermosyphon cooling system, which I believe is similar to the Bradford.

The problem mentioned in the previous posts seems to be getting enough water pressure to actuate a conventional heater. Could a 12v water pump help here? There are several types available now and they seem to be supplied for caravans and RVs, with reasonable flow rates. They look quite small and I reckon one of these could be 'hidden' away somewhere under the bonnet or floor and provide that extra bit of circulation to make a recirculating heater effective?

I recall on my Ford 8, the winters then seemed very cruel and in desperation I installed a large diameter fibre tube running across the top of the engine, with one end just behind the upper part of the radiator core and the other pushed through a convenient hole in the bulkhead, just above the gearbox. Rather crude, but reasonable effective in those times when funds didn't allow any finesse!

Driving home from work one evening, I forgot to remove the rug you used to cover the engine with when parked in the works car park (antifreeze being too expensive, you drained the water each evening and with only 6v available you needed all the warmth you could muster), and stopped going up the first hill just in time to prevent a serious fire! The smoke getting into the car rather gave the game away that all was not as it should be!

All the best,

David