1934 Jowett Van Braking System

[Tony Fearn]

Hi Alan.
I'm at a bit of a loss here.

1. How disparate are the collections of brake shoes/linings that you've used having found them in your "selection of good shoes out of my spares"? Are they
all the same thickness? Are any of them contaminated with oil - (brake/clutch spray cleaner on the shoes and the insides of the drums will remove oil etc.)

2. Have a look again at item 12 in my 'dissertation' below about shims etc. Is there only a small movement of the levers to put the brakes on by hand? The amount of movement should be very similar for all four drums.

3. You mention the floorboards are up so that you can see the cross tube levers are doing what they should, but what's happening at the levers at the end of the rods at
the drums?

4. Jack up the car again and support both the axles on axle stands simulating the car on the road. Leave the wheels on. Sit in the car. Press the foot pedal down until as you say "the pedal travels the inch and stops at that point". ie it won't go any further down.

5. Whilst holding the pedal down with your foot, as far as it will go, gently pull up the handbrake. As long as the adjustment of the handbrake nut activating the cross tube is ok, the hand brake should come up easily, but then it takes over from the pedal.

6. At this point, take your foot off the pedal, which will appear floppy - doing nothing. There should be a few more notches of the handbrake lever available before it comes all the way up on its ratchet.

7. At the point of final travel of the foot pedal, with the handbrake at the equilibrium point, get out of the car and try to turn the wheels by hand, they should resist the force, ie the brakes should be on and the wheels shouldn't turn.

8. Your car isn't a Ferrari which can stop on half a euro (I was going to say sixpence!). It hasn't got four wheel disc brakes, but when set up properly, and with a bit of anticipation when driving her, you should always feel safe........ish.
Tony.

[AlanBartlett]

My last post was bit hastey, I've gone through it again, And now have working brakes, which are noticeable that it slows you down. I think I was over thinking what the motions were, and how well there actually meant to work. The levers are coming moving to the 90 degree postion therefore on, ( brake shoes applied) I found that the crosstube, before I set it up was miles from where it needed to be at the vertical postion. And that there is only a small of amount of movenment of the cross shaft to the vertical "on" position as it were. Where as before it was almost at 9 o clock position, and making its way to 10 o clock. So not really effective. But now fingers crossed, they are all working as they should. Will take it out this weekend for a long run. Should be a good time to test it all out.

[george garside]

Alan, I used to 'test' pre war & Bradford mechanical brakes to establish if they were achieving something like the stopping power the makers intended. I did this on a very quiet bit of staight country lane by tying a rag to a fence or putting an object ( brick!) on a wall to give the point at which to brake hard

Drive along road at 30mph and brake hard when the object on the wall is alongside the bonnet . When stopped put another brick on wall or tie rag on, agin level with the bonnet. Bugger off & park safely! then on foot tie a piece of string to ist maker run it out and cut it at 2nd marker. take it home and measure it!

The autocar achieved 30 - 0 in 38ft and the motor 36 feet so something in the range of 35 to 40 ft should be achieved on a dry road.

You could of course use a Tapley meter ( if you can find one) but without the original readings it wouldnt tell you if the stopping power was as when the car was made.

Just another thought on braking power - if you have shoes/linings off different cars are you sure they all have the same hardness/softness of linings. I found that fitting ford sit up and beg pop shoes/linings on a Bradford (interchangeable) greatly improved the stopping power . This was because they had a softer lining whereas Jowetts used a harder one on the bradford presumably on the basis that it would be carrying at least 10cwt down some of Yorkshires finest acclivities. I had no fading problems as I used Bradfords passenger cars rath;er than as load luggers.

george

[Forumadmin]

Alan,
Also take your hands off the wheel when you are braking and gradually increase the strength of your braking. Check to see if there is any pull to one side or another or grab earlier on back or front. Obviously use a wide, flat, quite road! Sometimes it is not the brakes that cause any discrepancies as it could be play in the steering or tyre pressures or types or undulations in the road.

[george garside]

very much on the lines Keith is sugesting I used to make good use of a loose gravel road leading to a farm. The trick was to stand on the pedal to brake very hard ( hands off as keith said) from about 15- 20mph. The aim was to set everything up so as to produce 4 more or less identical '' skidmarks''

george

[AlanBartlett]

Well blooming hell. Dont they stop. Now I can honestly say Ive never had the brakes working so well. They have always been lagging, and doubtful as to whether they would stop. Now Ive taken the car out, up and down the village a few times and there is a significant improvement. Even to the point the wheels will skid on wet/gravel surfaces. Ive never had this before. But the pedal movement is still spongey/soft in movement. , but stopping the car to the point it haults and skids, everything seems to be working right up until the brake pedal, I'd just like its supposed to be like. Having always had dull kind of pedal before.

[george garside]

Alan, compared to hydraulic brakes mechanical systems have a quite different feel including greater travel so what you describe sounds about right

george

[Tony Fearn]

Well done everyone for getting Alan's brakes working properly.

Alan, practice the anticipation and leave a lot of room between you and the car in front.

Tony.

[AlanBartlett]

Many thanks for everyones input. My main question really was the how the pedal was meant to feel. Having worked with hydros mostly the feel in pedals are different. Like you said before Tony its getting things made safe, now its going alright. Wanted to make sure it stops as it's meant to. Making good use of the forum, a great reference tool from people who have already been through various jobs.