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[Keith Clements]

Ian,
I think you are getting two threads mixed up. The opportunity to get new members into the club via the LCC course and having younger (under 50 year old) members helping to run the club are two separate objectives. Offering LCC 'students' access to the Gallery and hence the Jowetteer and all the technical articles is 'free'. Such privilege is normally only open to club members. It is essentially free 'Associate' membership which is aimed at people with an interest in Jowetts but who do not own one. But we would hope that such members would then get a Jowett and become full members.

Only full members can be an officer of the club, but that does not stop 'associate' members being on Section committees, helping out (outside committees) or being asked to run with something to help the club. This is what we need to encourage.

Perhaps our marketing and advertising plan should aim at gaining associate members, and just make sure we offer every encouragement to people we find have bought a Jowett to join the club and support them when they have.

I am not suggesting that associate membership should be free. The LCC students have paid a considerable amount of money to be on the course and will be helping JCS and our technical knowledge via JowettTalk and the JowettGallery. So this is a special case. It is similar to the Ex Employees membership status.

We need to canvas the many 'young' full members to help run and organise events for the club as well. All clubs are suffering from lack of people to run them, so we need to think of new ways of including as many members as possible in helping to run the club. We must realise that regular travelling for face to face meetings is not efficient and there are much better ways of doing and organising things. By such remote teaming you can get many more involved as they can do things when they have time.

[george garside]

Ian , When refering to 'younger' members I was meaning adult full members in their 20's 30's & 40's and am not sure wht you are suggesting by having one junior member on the club committee. When I first joined the club in the early 60's a great number of us , probably the majority, fell in the above age groups . When I did a stint of Jowetteer editing and exec ctee membership in the early 80s I was in my late 30's.

Todays members in the aforementioned age groups are just as capable (or incapable ) now as I and similer aged coleagues were years ago. They are full club members and should not be seen as in any way 'junior' or 'inexperienced' Indeed a mixture of age groups with equal status in senior club positions would provide a very healthy basis for th.e clubs long term future. It would also make the club more attractive to others of similar ages which again is vital to its long term future.

Perhaps a start wuold be to 'volunteer' some younger bods to section secretary or chairmanships and also to make it known through the Jowetteer that the exec committee is ENTHUSIASTCALY seeking nominations from younger members to stand for club officer posts. This may also provide the opportunity for some long serving 'postholders' to take a well earned rest .

george

[Chris Spencer]

Ok - Cat among the pidgeons time:

Perhaps a start wuold be to 'volunteer' some younger bods to section secretary or chairmanships and also to make it known through the Jowetteer that the exec committee is ENTHUSIASTCALY seeking nominations from younger members to stand for club officer posts. This may also provide the opportunity for some long serving 'postholders' to take a well earned rest.

Not one to wash our / the clubs laundry in a public forum, equally I am not someone that will allow myself be walked all over either. George you are quite right in your statement and we do have some enthusiastic younger members - however, given recent personal experience I will add that some (not all) members of of current exec committee would be enthusiatic in admitting that this is exactly what needs to happen.

[george garside]

It is definately not my intention to ''put the cat among the pidgeons''' or to become involved in criticism of ANY fellow club members on or not on any committees!

I do however feel that it is necessary in any organisation for somebody to occasionally state the obvious in order to foster constructive debate and that was/is my sole intention.

My personal version of logic simply indicates that

1 we have a steadily aging membershio and this is reflected in the make up of both 'club' and 'section' leadership committees or whatever you want to call them

2 we have a small but hopefully growing number of enthusiastic and capable younger members who for whatever reason are not holding office within the organisation.

3 If we are unable to involve group 2 in the leadership/organisational functions of the club presently being undertaken more or less entirely by group 1 the club will eventually dwindle to the point of extinction!

4 Do we want 3 to happen?

hence the need for debate!

george

[Chris Spencer]

George - You are completely correct in your assessment / statement - However it's me that is 'Putting the cat among the pidgeons' - in what I state:

'Given recent personal experience I am of the opinion that some members (not all) of our current exec committee would find this very difficult to accept'

To be clear I think that certain members of the committee find it very difficult to accept the fact that the times are changing and communication is a critical skill of a committee member. I am not that assured they are doing the club full justice whilst ever they operate in this mode of thought and action.

[Tony Fearn]

'Given recent personal experience I am of the opinion that some members (not all) of our current exec committee would find this very difficult to accept'
To be clear I think that certain members of the committee find it very difficult to accept the fact that the times are changing and communication is a critical skill of a committee member. I am not that assured they are doing the club full justice whilst ever they operate in this mode of thought and action.

"communication is a critical skill .........of a committee member".

I agree with the first part, but not everyone is the same.

'By schisms rent asunder' springs to mind here, if you know the hymn. To my mind there are ways and means to gradual change, and it could take a little time for this to happen. Confrontation of the wrinklies, amongst which I include myself, might not be the only way to bring about that change.

Most Club members aren't used to this fast, almost immediate communication tool, but as we've seen over the life of JowettTalk, more and more of us are trying it out.

So, perhaps a little more circumspection is warranted.

Tony.

[Chris Spencer]

Tony - You do have a valid point however, it was not the form of communication (how the communication had been placed / relayed) issue that I was addressing in my case - it was the fact that if a member communicates with a committee member and said committee member fails to reply within a realistic time period / or fails to communicate at all - then is that committee member doing the club any justice?

Surely, regardless of the form of communication and even should the committee member disagree with the points being made by a member - it deserves a response / acknowledgement - even if it's a 'thanks for your communication but I am not taking the matter any further' - but to ingnore communication from members and think that it has no effect on the club is a foolish assumption.

Now your point on us all taking some time to accept on the how the majority of the world communicates today and the fact it leaves some of us having to play catch up - well I can not say that I am the most up to date peron with everything that happens out there - I do not have a smart phone (but there is one on way - has business / clients dictate that I have to), facebook or twitter account - but I do use e mail, mobile telephones & I post on a couple of forums.

The vast majority of the membership agrees that the imput of a younger generation membership would be a welcome addition to the club, in order to attract / target said younger generation we have to communicate on their level - so how do they communicate ? ' E mail / Twitter / Text / Facebook / QR codes / palm tops / lap tops / smart phones etc' - and unless we start to communicate on thier level and soon - it will be too late - so the sooner we all realise and accept this and treat it as a priority - the better, rather than wait untill we all get shuffuled in to the nursing home at which point membership recuitment becomes the problem of someone else - question is will they be any members left to pick up the peices if we have not addressed recuiting them in the first place. (Same statement as made by George in point 3 of his last post)

Regards Chris

[Keith Clements]

A schisms or splits only happen if people are so blinkered that they cannot accommodate other people's views. That means on both sides.

They only happen if people polarise and do not accept a rainbow of views. That is what is wrong with divisive politics, fervent religion and passionate fans. It is good to hold views and debate them; but step back and then argue against yourself and view it from the other side or sides.

Luckily in this topic we have views from just about every decade although perhaps not the 40 and 80 year olds.

So back to the topic! If we were to advertise, who would we try to attract and what would we say? Let us have your ideas and then let us do it in every way we can. Perhaps start with the home page of the website or the club brochure https://jowettnet/forum/download/file.p ... &mode=view

[george garside]

I am entirely to blaim for taking this thread 'off topic' but thats now't unusual as I tend to go off an a tangent with most discussions ( I put it down to being an oportunist with a fertile brain - others may well see it differently!

With hindsight I should have started a new thread ?'' how can we involve younger members in the organisation and running of the club'' or ''should yhounger members be actively encouraged to sit on club committees'' or whatever''
I am happy to start a new thread on those lines but wonder if it would be possible to transfer postings on that topic from the advertising thread so that the opinions therein are not lost. A fresh thread with a more obvious title may bring more members into the debate. Over to you Keith.

george

[AlanBartlett]

Well its views which need to be voiced isn't really regardless of which topic its in. Out in the open and up for discussission.

I think yes they should be encouraged, how ever keeping interest in club affairs is each to their own, me personally I know i should probably be more aware of what goes on within the club, but at this point its a topic which doesn't get my interest as much, well not on my mind at the moment. Though I do get the impression if something isnt done within the near future information will be lost. Basically the younger member drive.

As for my original post on advertising, I would imagine its not just us who are struggling to encourage and recruit fresh people. Though I do think sometimes some marques are pricing themselves out new members, with the values of cars going up, isnt helping. Average young joe, unless they really wanted one i dont think could afford a classic. On that subject what is about for basket cases, Ive noticed chris's contribution to forsale thread with a monthly update, but is it me or are basket cases getting rarer to find. But then again I think thats going/has been happening for a while.

[Keith Clements]

It is possible to start new threads of course and move posts into that thread, leaving the posts in the original topic if you want. But either way people can get lost unless there is heavy editing.

I could start a new forum in which we can group such topics if you would like. It could be called 'club business' and could act as an additional way to feed into the running of the club besides committees and section meetings that many of us cannot attend. Anyway, I think discussion is better carried out in quality time and not distracted by being in a pub or other social venue. A forum is open 24x7 so can capture those ideas when you wake up dreaming in the middle of the night and does not have to wait 6 months till the next club meeting.

I would put 'Club Business ' forum in the 'Cooperative' section that is ONLY visible to registered users (not the public) so provides some privacy. This might be considered negative by some as we are not sharing our thoughts with other car enthusiasts and also negative by others who would only want fully paid up members to view such things and others who would only want such discussion to take place behind closed doors.

Hopefully any discussion could be edited and presented at club meetings by those attending or even have officers contributing to it or even have it integrated into the Secretary's report at meetings! We even have the ability to have votes on the forum so, as well a postal votes, we might have internet votes. I know that will never happen......will it?

What do you think, do you want such a forum?

[Jack]

The two separate issues do need to be discussed separately I think - the big issue of how to attract new members, how to attract younger members, and how to ensure the future of the club is perhaps a bigger one than whether we pay money for adverts in publications.

To focus on the issue of advertising:

I work in a world which is changing. Printed publications are quite simply disappearing. The number of pieces of paper I receive is dwindling to nothing, the number of e-mails and other electronic communications I receive is increasing exponentially it seems. This is a matter of cost - it is very expensive to produce anything which is physically printed, and it is relatively cheaper to produce and distribute a professional e-mail or other communication. As a result companies are looking to reduce costs because frankly available advertsing revenue in almost every industry is getting smaller. Money is instead being spent on online campaigns, including the omnipresent Facebook, Twitter and Youtube etc, because the simple truth is that they get better results for less money.

So how to we approach this as a club? The answer seems fairly simple to me. For starters we need to keep doing what we do already - this includes providing vehicles for features, something that Noel has co-ordinated very successfully over many years. We need to send new and interesting articles to magazines for publication - this includes getting some decent photos together, telling the world about the great stories we have within the club, and in many cases doing the journalist's job for them. They should be hammering on our door every month to hear about everything that we are up to, but the reality is that they will not go out and spend time hammering on our door when the other clubs and companies are hammering on their door with articles ready to go.

We also need to do new things. 95%+ of people when asked to find something on the internet go straight to Google. If you can be found on Google, that is advertising. If you have a website that people click on and then stick around for a while, that is advertising. If your website gets people to buy/join/engage with you, then you have made a sale and the advertising works. We also need to engage with all the other places that new members come from - that includes things like entering competitions that give us free publicity in return for a bit of hard work "turning out our vote" and using social media to our advantage. Because it costs pennies to do. Running this forum takes time, but is almost certainly responsible for a significant percentage of people who find us on the internet.

The options seem simple to me - do we spend money on paying a magazine to put in 50 word adverts about the club, or do we spend a quiet evening over winter putting together our photos from an interesting story and writing it up? If you put something together, and send it to Noel, he will quite happily forward it to someone that will get it published, or give you the appropriate contact details for someone that you can approach. If you hand it to them on a plate, they will publish it. I am yet to find a story that we've put together than nobody has printed. One evening invested in the future of the club, or £100 paid to a magazine? Seems like simple maths to me, I'd rather spend a couple of hours than put my hand in my pocket.

So the challenge, from me, is simple. If you can find me a story so dull and so unlikely that we can't get it published anywhere, or if we run out of stories to tell, then we pay magazines for advertising. I am yet to find a story that doesn't have an angle of some sort that a magazine isn't interested in. Of course we could easily do both, but why invest lots of money on small adverts when we have so many great stories to share within the club, and so many people capable of putting that into a publishable format?

The magazines don't seem to mind where their bread and butter comes from. They need articles that people want to read and which gets people to buy their magazines. If people buy their magazines, then advertisers spend money with them so that their readers buy their products. Nobody buys the magazines for the adverts, so any magazine reliant on adverts (other than Autotrader!) won't be around for long. If we can provide the articles, they are happy. If we pay for adverts, they are happy. If we do both, they are very happy. If we do neither, and expect the world to come to us by magic then we will not see many Jowetts in magazines.

The other route, of course, is to publish things yourself. By uploading videos to Youtube you make them findable by the general public. By adding images that can be found on Google then you make the cars easy to find. Coming full circle this all adds to the attraction for younger members who simply will not join a club that doesn't have a website, that doesn't communicate by e-mail, and that doesn't have a forum for discussion like this one. We are doing all of those things, but we could certainly do more. And almost all of these things are free - putting things onto the internet doesn't usually cost money, and they can lead people to us as a club.

Jack.

[p.p.]

have a look at facebook:

FACEBOOK GROUP

JOWETT CLASSIC CARS AUSTRALIA

lots of young folks ar getting to see it and join...... (me too, i'm not sooooo young).

peter

[Chris Spencer]

Jack - Is very much correct - and should you require any proof of his preachings just look at the piece that has been published is Classic Car Weekley this last week - important to remember that next year is a very big year for the club - just because the rally season for some just involves the spring / summer months it does NOT mean that we take our foot off the pedal over winter when it comes to marketing / promoting the club. We need a year round sustained drive to acheive the publicity / profile that the club deserves - further to what we get printed I know that a huge amount of work has been dedicated by Noel & Jack to build an impressive list of editorial contacts who now realise just how passionate we are has a club and are now only too willing to accept and print our press releases.

But please remember we need to know what's happening out there - please do not keep to yourself or just within your club section - feed the news into Jack or Noel so that can do something with it. We have just seen a 12 month period where I can not recall seeing so many high quality published articles on the club / members & our cars - we need to continue this path and keep the ball rolling.

[Keith Clements]

Getting articles published is not the same as advertising or marketing unless such articles are written in a way that achieves the objective of the marketing plan and those articles reach the intended recipients. That statement flies in the face of the well known quote ' Any publicity is good publicity' but I still maintain that we do need to coordinate our press input, except perhaps for local paper articles.

So get those stories, however rudimentary, to Noel and Jack.

It is an important rule in advertising to repeat the message many times and to make the message memorable. Thus over the next year EVERY statement made by anybody talking about Jowetts should contain a consistent message. People should know after reading any article 'what we want them to know' and they should remember it. So what do we 'want them to know' and how do we make it memorable?
1. The Jowett Car Club is 90 years old and they should join, even if they do not own a Jowett.
2. People can see the cars and meet club members at the Milestones Museum, Basingstoke on 25th to 26th May 2013.
3. The club website is jowett.org with an active forum and archive
4. The QR coded picture link takes you on a tour of the Jowett world.

Let us trim and hone these messages to target the intended audience which may be the school kids, the technical college students, the 20 to 40 year olds , the Revival movement, the classic motorsport guys and gals, those wanting a new hobby in retirement who may be as young as 50..........you need a target if you are going to hit anything!