What is this from?

[Andy Stevens]

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Recently advertised on ebay as a Jupiter steering rack. Is it??

[Chris Spencer]

i am relibly informed by Mr Clements that it is a non Jowett part.

[Andy Stevens]

Thats what I thought - it looks nothing like the rack on my car.
Someone paid £73 for it though!

[Chris Spencer]

Some people never fail to amaze me maybe he has the same amount of sense that the other guy has who paid £800 for a condition unknown siezed engine.

[Keith Clements]

They will probably turn up in a week or two on ebay and sell for double! There seems to be always someone willing to pay!

As I said previously, it is possible the rack was fitted to a Jupiter as a mod. The engine too, looks complete so with some fettling it might run and thus be worth that money to someone.

Where did you learn it was seized? Even if it was, that may only be a sticking valve or one piston rusted so it may not be much to worry about. The main cost issue would be the condition of the block and crank. If both were useable then it would be a reasonable price.

A complete rebuilt engine may now cost £3000-£4000 or even more if you want a good spec. Just start adding up the cost of all the parts from JCS or other suppliers and then add in a couple of hundred hours labour of a skilled engineer.

There is a huge amount of risk in any used engine as usually they are not in the car for a reason. There is some risk in an unused engine as it is untested and may harbour a host of faults.

Look at some statistics from the Severnside section who tested about 20 reasonable blocks and found 3 or more with leaks when doing an air pressure test. You should also try checking conrods where you may find 5-10% bent. The list goes on, every component needs to be thoroughly checked, often with some specialised equipment such as for crack or hardness testing . Even after doing all this you will be lucky to get a reliable performing engine. OK it may work well enough to potter around for a few days a year.

But do not let that put you off trying to get your Jowett working. It is a great hobby. You will just need a lot of patience.

[Andy Stevens]

I found out it was seized when I tried to turn it over with a starting handle!!!

[Keith Clements]

What did the add say 'very good condition' or similar?!%*

[David Morris]

Hi there,

Keith mentions that here is Severnside we found 3 leaking blocks from 20. I am afraid it is much worse than that! we are only getting about a 20% pass rate on blocks.

Unfortunately, we find all too many blocks fail an air pressure test and even those that do struggle to pass, may then have visible cracks that don't actually leak air but might be around pulled studs etc.

Welding may well be a solution, but we have found distortion due to welding can result in dimensional problems, like the crank being unable to rotate. Also, corrosion is a big problem, especially at the lower edge of the crankcase, just at the cylinder head interface.

It's a problem and we need to conserve blocks that are sound. We seem to find early crankcases survive better. However, they then need quite a lot of machining to bring them up to a reasonable standard with regards to oil flow etc.

All the best,

David

[Keith Clements]

Sorry David I had read and copied your PM but was interrupted posting it on two occasions! Sorry I had the pass and fail mixed up. Over the years I have collected about 20 block sets, 9 of them in 1969 when the ex Jowett dealer in Barnstaple put me on to a farmer who had to shift them from his barn along with the rest of 9 engines and gearboxes! My parents stored these for years until we bought our first house. But even during that time these spares were used to fix cracked blocks and seized gearboxes in my flat and Jenny's dad's garage.

Over the next year or two I hope to check them all. I can now only find 4 that will get to the next stage which will be a deaper cleaner , visual inspection and then your pressure test. So perhaps I will find 1 or 2 that can be used without welding. With tired Jup and Jav engines in my cars needing attention and Jack and Chris needing a motor for theirs we will be setting up a production line!

I recently did a visual crack inspection on the heads in the collection as well, about half had them across the valve seat or had frost damage.

[David Morris]

Dear Keith,

Thanks very much for your reply. Yes, we are finding that the heads develop cracks across the valve seats as well. Also, the seats for the core plugs in the heads get corroded, and John Airey is investigating boring these out to the next size of core plug, to reclaim the seats.

The air pressure test on the blocks is a very useful check on the blocks. John Airey and Nigel Woodford have sets of the test kits, which we would recommend using as a prerequisite before doing any further work on the blocks.

I hope you have success with your blocks and manage to find enough 'good' sets.

All the best,

David

[ian Howell]

Just a thought: -

If there is a crack across a valve seat, might it not be 'cured' (at least in some cases) by fitting hardened valve seats. This would also solve the perceived problem with burning due to modern fuels.

Wouldn't it?

[David Morris]

Hi there,

Maybe? If the cracks are not deep, then perhaps putting in a new seat might cure it. But if the cracks have pentrated deeper into the head, and especially into the water jacket, then I am not sure the new seats would be a cure?

Has anyone had experience of this as a cure?

All the best,

David

[Keith Clements]

I have successfully had fitted valve seats to eight heads with cracks. All my engines in use in the SA, SC and Jav have this mod. A pair were done almost every decade since 1980s. The last two had Allen screws fitted to further locate the seats and prevent them getting loose.

[Alf Heseltine]

If the crack extends from inlet to exhaust seat is this still a cure. Is there a preferred method of valve seat fitting for max reliability.
I've heard of seats coming loose on rare occasions when heads have been modified with hard valve seats for unleaded fuel & cracks not an issue.
Is this a thing of the past.

Alf.

[jowettgeoff]

Interesting comments about seat inserts 'curing' cracked heads. My local engineer (who has many years' experience), reckons that inserting seats is likely to cause the crack to widen, possibly resulting in the seat coming loose. He sent one of my dodgy heads to a 'specialist welder', who was unable to do a satisfactory job because the crack was very deep. Also the welder said that the material was 'very difficult'. In the end, we peened the crack over, cut and re-ground the seats, and crossed fingers. So far it's been fine - but time will tell. Ref the 'Jupiter' steering rack, another Jowetteer asked me if I could confirm that it was suitable for his Jup project, and of course I didn't. Caveat emptor - as Amy might say