Recommissioning 1929 long two

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BarryCambs
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Recommissioning 1929 long two

Post by BarryCambs »

Following on from my posts on the "natter" pages, I thought I should move to this section now I am starting to plan the recommissioning of the long two and gets some parts together. I'm hoping to move it home in the next few weeks and to try and get it on the road for the good weather.

The car has been stood for the best part of 40 years, although it was started and driven to the end of the road and back around 10 years ago, so shouldn't have any major problems. The last real journey it made was back from an MOT in 1974, so I'm hoping that would point to no major wear on suspension, brake linkages, etc, etc.

It needs a set of tyres and tubes, which I was going to try the club spares section for. I assume they stock these, as I saw an ad for innner tubes in the Jowetteer. As mentioned before, it has had a later 1934 engine and 4 speed box fitted and the whole system has been converted to 12v electrics too. We now know from the change of engine number on the log book this was done in 1951. An additional battery box has been fitted on the near side running board, but it seems sensible to go with a single 12 volt battery, especially as the battery cables don't look too clever. Given the length of time it has stood, the plan is to take off and check/overhaul the starter, dynamo, distributor, voltage regulator and carb, as I'm keen to get it as usable and reliable as possible. It obviously need hoses, HT leads, fuel lines and anything else that looks perished.

I have a few initial questions I'd be very grateful with some expert help with:

The fuel tank is under the bonnet and I understand the later models had it more conventionally at the rear of the car. This later engine has a fuel pump, which I was planning to refurbish with a rebuild kit. However, it seems strange to have a pump on a system which would presumably work quite happily as gravity feed. Would the original engine have had a pump??

At some stage while it's been off the road, someone started filling and rubbing down the front wings. As can be seen on the pictures on the other thread, these now need finishing and painting. I'd like to do this properly with the appropriate paint, but I'm not sure what would have been used originally? Does anyone have any recommendations for paint and methods?

My only real concern with the engine itself (which will be treated with the utmost care and respect before starting it again!) is the front and rear main oil seals. I'm assuming these are felt?? If so, I've rebuilt enough old engine to guess their condition :-(

The manual and Service Spec from the club say Castrol XL for engine oil, but I was confused to see "Duckhams 20-50" listed as an alternative. I was assuming it needs straight SAE30? Do people use SAE40 for the summer, or is this an over complication?

Any other tips, warnings and advice will be very much appreciated!

Barry
george garside
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Re: Recommissioning 1929 long two

Post by george garside »

cant see any reason for petrol pump with gravity feed unless the pipe to the tank has been altered eg by going in at the top to eliminate the need for a petrol tap. On other hand retaining it will not do any harm!. Alaternatively it could be removed and a blanking plate made up to cover the orifice left in the crankcase. Rear main is taken care of by an oil thrower which should not have deteriorated .

For what its worth I always used duckhams 20/50 on twins with completely satisfactory results.

george
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Re: Recommissioning 1929 long two

Post by Forumadmin »

Perhaps it was used in hill cimbing! :lol:
george garside
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Re: Recommissioning 1929 long two

Post by george garside »

Reminds me of a story my grandfather used to tell .. He was possibly one of the earliest 'motorised' commercial travellers (called reps these days) and regularly used to travel from London to Scotland in a 1903 single cylinder De Dion with the petrol tank under the seat. The ascent of Shap had to be done in the De Dion , and indeed in many other cars, in reverse gear so as to maintain sufficient head of fuel!

george
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Re: Recommissioning 1929 long two

Post by Forumadmin »

I had the problem with a weak petrol pump whilst travelling Devon and had to reverse up a very steep hill. It turned out to be a lump of rubber off the cap tube that had lodged in the pipe. Car was quite happy bombing along a motorway. I did tests with a manometer on getting home and they were OK. It was a combination of required delivery height and volume of petrol needed. Something to do with Bernoulli's principle. Airline in the petrol tank with pump off blew it out. Doing it the other way would have needed the tank removing. The clue was some rubber particles in the filter. Also replaced tube.
BarryCambs
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Re: Recommissioning 1929 long two

Post by BarryCambs »

I would have to check, but I think it could be the petrol tap has been removed. If not, I might do away with the pump, as it seems an over complication.

I remember coming back down the A1 in an old MK 2 transit many years ago when the fuel pump went. We managed to fill the washer bottle with petrol and hang it off the wing mirror and with more than a few stops to refil, we managed to get back before closing time!

Does anyone have any thoughts regarding paint??
Chris Spencer
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Re: Recommissioning 1929 long two

Post by Chris Spencer »

Barry - Not enough hours in the day at present with my day job - but give me until the weekend and I shall post some advice on the paint for you.
37 Jowett 8 HP - In many parts
52 Javelin Std 'Taxi Livery'
52 Javelin Std Patina project
52 Javelin Std Sports project
52 Jupiter SA - Original car - full restoration project
BarryCambs
Posts: 331
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2011 2:49 pm
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Given Name: Barry

Re: Recommissioning 1929 long two

Post by BarryCambs »

Hi all

Can I ask what oil people are using in the rear axles? I'm about to order 25 litres of SAE30 from Morris Oils, as I plan to do a couple of very frequent oil changes once I get it running and was going to add a can of their AG 140 gear oil to the order. This states it's ideal for vintage application where a non EP oil is specified. However, in the service spec provided on the club website, it says Hypoid / EP?

I read you can have problems with EP additives attacking yellow metals, so a bit paranoid as I don't know what's in the axle in the way of materials.

Thanks, Barry
george garside
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Re: Recommissioning 1929 long two

Post by george garside »

The factory recommendation was castrol XL for both engine & box .As XL was a straight 30 morris's 30 should be fine

george
BarryCambs
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Re: Recommissioning 1929 long two

Post by BarryCambs »

Thanks George. I was going to use the SAE30 in the gearbox, but it was the diff oil I'm uncertain about
george garside
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Re: Recommissioning 1929 long two

Post by george garside »

forgot to mention - have you thought about using a 'flushing' oil . Assuming you are not stripping the engine down prior to initial start up it may be worth starting on flushing oil for a few minutes, then draining & replacing with 30's for a couple of hours running, then flushing again & refilling with 30's . Also before starting up remove the oil filter from sump and thououghly clean it. The state of the filter should give you some idea of how much crud there is stuck to the inside of the crankcase. Also watch the oil pressure carefully on initial start up!

george
BarryCambs
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Re: Recommissioning 1929 long two

Post by BarryCambs »

I had wondered about using flushing oil, but was in two minds. On reflection, I will probably will flush it and I was going to give it a couple of changes within the first few miles anyway. I might have been tempted to do a partial engine strip and clean given the amount of time it has been stood, but apparently it was started briefly about 5 years ago, so the moment's probably been lost.
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Re: Recommissioning 1929 long two

Post by Forumadmin »

Do not put 30 in the diff! It needs a much thicker oil. I do not know the exact requirements for the pre-war diff but I should think a 90 would be OK.
These days the oils are often multigrade providing the benefits of cold lubrication and hot consistency. So a 75/90 is probably the best.

Regarding additives. I suspect that over the years the diff has had many changes of oil so any additives would have already clung to the parts and either improved or destroyed them. There is no doubt much discussion on other forums and from vendors on the benefits of non-additive oil or specific problems with specific additives. I doubt you will do enough miles in the car to see any difference unless you are planning a cross-Africa trip. :D
BarryCambs
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Re: Recommissioning 1929 long two

Post by BarryCambs »

I know the diff should have 140 in it, just if it needs EP additives that wasn't clear in my mind. I think I need to look in the parts list to see if there are Hypoid or bevel gears, which determines the spec. The Service spec does say EP and a bit of reading shows there are lower spec oils (GL1) with lower levels of additives, which should be ok.
george garside
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Re: Recommissioning 1929 long two

Post by george garside »

Barry - there seems to be some confusion over back aaxle oil . Factory handbooks and The Jowett Manual (all models up to '35) definately recommend castrol XL (30) for the back axle of all 7hp models.(and that is what I always used in mine) The handbooks for the Bradford reccommend sae140. to confuse the matter a bit moe The Pitmans book of the Jowett & Bradford recommens ana SAE90 apparently both for pre war and Bradfords. The odd one out is the pre war * (different axle to the 7 but more or less the same as the Bradford but for which the handbook says Castol XL!)

It would therefore seem pertinent ato consult one or two current owners of 7's eg Tony Fearn, Ian Priestly et al to see what they use.

george
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