Daily driver

[paul wilks]

This business of fitting wider radial tyres to the Javelin keeps cropping up so sorry about this but........
Has anyone who has fitted radials found an increase in wear on especially the front suspension or steering joints. I would have thought that given the fact these cars were designed for the skimpy cross plies there would bound to be some additional wear especially at the front end.

Any comments please?

[Keith Andrews]

I dont see why....
Without powersteering , and as it seems most where tought to drive mid last century, we where told dont even bother moving (steering) the front wheels when the car is stationary....ie the wheel is turned full lock or what ewver in the last foot of that part of the 3 piont turn.
This was not just because of forcing/;oading the steering up, but simply the eay way to do it.

Yes I can see bad practices of not doing this may and could be likely to place unnessary wear in the steering and alignment geometry..regardless radial or crossply.
In many old cars, in partular American, pre radial had opposite cambers ie leaning out at the top...with radials this should be leaning in at the top slightly on the road more for racing...and sliglty more caster...I do not know how this applies to orginal jowett specs.
Also the radial ..at least on the bradford increases braking significantly...I have never had an issue with Bradford brakes in the 1st place like may seem to do....yep they are unassitted mechanic..no different than what I would expect from unassitted hydrolic compare to power assited.....Set to how the factory does by the book and they are good and even better with radials....I think this is due to better tread patern and rubber compound rather than slightly larger footprint.

[Leo Bolter]

Classic car tyres and the replacement of cross-ply sizes with equivalent radial ones. See http://jowett.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2474

Cheers.
Leo.

[Forumadmin]

There are many variables that affect road grip through the tyres and steering quality. Stability of the sidewall is mainly governed by tyre pressure and is the first to get right. Obviously the conclusion depends on what you are expecting the tyre to do. Just consider how much is discussed on F1 about tyre pressures. The next to get right is steering geometry. King pin inclination is the most important as it aims to get the line of the king pin in he centre of the contact patch. If you fit different wheels or tyres this will change which is why I have a selection of spacers to accurately position this point.

[robert lintott]

I am sure there are many Javelin owners who have fitted 165x 16 radials to their cars to improve roadholding . When new the Javelin 's handling was superior to most saloons then on sale , perhaps not as good as the Morris Minor of the time . Radials were only just becoming more common at that time , the Michelin X being most popular . I did not fit them to my Javelin , but did shortly after to a 1959 Rapier , a 1964 Corsair GT and a Triumph 2000 . The Javelin problem was roadholding on crossplies, it was too easy to spin the car on a damp road , the light laden back end would let go . Radials might have helped.
Radials would increase safe cornering speeds, so wheel bearings need to be in good order and the risk of wheels cracking is increased--a Javelin characteristic I believe? Braking should be improved so keeping up with modern traffic is less of a strain.
Going for wider tyres on the same rims could give rise to wear and handling problems. with 15 ,14 and 13 inch wheels becoming common in the '50s and '60s it was easy to find wider wheels to fit , but not so with Javelin 16s .
Any comments from users? Bob Lintott

[Keith Andrews]

You will soon know when u stat to stress your rims /suspention beyond design limits.
The hub caps tend to travel at speeds faster than the car for a short period and get lost in drains on the side of the road.

[robert lintott]

sounds like a NASCAR driver !! Bob

[Keith Andrews]

NASCAR ...
Hmm we digress here...
Some yrs ago on the NZ Nth Branch Economy run we strted to take things a little more serious on the open road.
A couple of us in our Bradfords wher going hard out racing....It was just like NASCAR in slow motion even with 'pit tactics'
A 100 or couple hundred yrd gap was slow motion catch up, bit of drafting..well attempts lol...and when it came to letting trafic past, pulling over, choosing places , types of places and when to force the driver up front to do so in 'bad' places.
We did near on 100 miles like this...And never broke the speed limit...

Then top it off..rem this is economy run...we won the best economy to boot
As you see we take out runs very serious in NZ...we seriously go out to enjoy ourselves.

[Keith Clements]

'Drafting' or 'tailgating' was common on motorways to either save fuel or get you going faster than you could normally do. Maybe it was relatively 'safe' in the old days when trucks had abysmal brakes! I do not see much of it now as speeds have increased and everybody is aware of the dangers. I must admit I have used the technique on a few occasions when nursing a Jowett home with some ailment that was eased by the tow.

[Keith Andrews]

Tail gating is when someone is up your date..and u wish u have got around to adjusting the brake lights came on before the brakes did, and that moment they change a radio station/look away.
Drafting is racing legit, with everyone going in the same direction, no side roads and a 'lookout' on every straight and cnr ready to wave a flag if anything is wrong.
"bit of drafting..well attempts" Think about it..1 Braddy eventually catches up to pass...keep in mind one is going 50 mph the other 52 mph maybe 53 then game (Stupid) enough to get close enough, then to pull out ..on a highway (not motorway) to pass, of which the whole manuvore takes several miles and long time........
We are not that stupid down under...hence the "pit tactics" lol

[paul wilks]

Very interesting. Now getting back to these radials v cross-plies (!) I assume those who have fitted radials have either had to dispense with using the spare wheel tray, or had the tray modified in some way to take the larger tyre, or dumped the spare in the boot, which in my case would not go down at all well with my better half- Kathryn thinks I take too many spares in the boot as it is, leaving little room for suitcases etc!

[Keith Andrews]

Yep the spare... I will illustratewith the camaro... the orginal crossply tyres are much smaller than my 235 60 14s, and the radial isdamn heavy to sling into the trunk, let alone get it in thru the opening easy, and little room, and will not fit the factory tie down.
The other issue is it is a different diameter. putting diffent overal diameter wheels/tyres on a diff axle heats up hipod gears bad and likely to do long term damage.
So I have an orginal rim, that has a skinny tyre the same diameter as my rear tyres (diff axle).. It also happens to be a radial... basically a sort of space save tyre but better.

[robert lintott]

I am not sure who provides them , but you can obtain a modified container for the wider spare tyre . I assume it is quite simple to cut the normal container and weld in a band to enlarge the width. Bob Lintott

[NigelMorley]

Radial Tyres. Yes they improve the car but you need to fit the right one for the rim .Javelin/Jupiter rims are narrow so 5.50x16 is about right. Michelin X is available in this size but expensive. Cheaper radials such as 175X16 Taxi are 6 ply and may move on the rim. Take care when altering wheels tyres, brakes, suspension ect. In the small print of most insurance policies it says the fitting of inappropriate parts may invalidate your cover.

[paul wilks]

Thanks everybody. Many years ago because I was frightened half to death by tales of cracked Javelin wheels, I purchased a set of specially produced replacement wheels from JCS which I understand would take radials- the size 176 x 16 seems to ring a bell (could this be correct?) or cross ply 550 x 16 or 525 x 16.

• I assume this size of replacement wheel could take such a wide range of sizes but would appreciate anyone who remembers the actual details of production of the wheels.

I later found that tales of cracked Javelin wheels seemed to be slightly exaggerated and confined to those who raced/competed their cars. Since I did not contemplate such use for my Javelin I have NEVER fitted these wheels. A lot depends, of course, on the availability of cross plies and their price!

• Does anyway know if the larger size wheel trays are available rather than carving up my current nice original wheel tray please?

Thanks again everybody. The answers and details and help to any question posed are fantatstic!!