Ethanol in petrol (again!)

[paul wilks]

Re this Ethanol in petrol debate I have just received an email from FROST the car accessory people thus:

Frost is proud to inform you that our Ethomix (Z555) is now endorsed by the Federation of British Historic Vehicle Clubs (FBHVC) as a fuel additive for protection against corrosion in metals.


Due to the addition of Ethanol in petrol, it is essential to use a corrosion addictive for nearly all pre 1996 engines. Ethomix is formulated to prevent corrosion in fuel systems and internal engine components, gum and resin build-up, clogged carburettors, injectors, filters and fuel lines, plus aggravation of water and moisture problems in fuel storage or unused vehicle situations.

Anyone know anything about this addititve please? Or is it too new??

[Peter Holden]

The FBHVC website has the following to say:

It is worth noting that these test were for anti corrosive and NOT for any other potential benefit. I would suggest you read the lable on the tin carefully.


FUEL STABILITY ADDITIVE TEST RESULTS
Posted by admin on 13-04-2012

The FBHVC is pleased to announce the results of its fuel stability additive test programme. This research was designed to test the anti-corrosive properties of proprietary additives claiming to provide a high level of protection against potential corrosion of fuel systems, including tanks, pipework and fuel metering equipment on historic vehicles caused by the addition of ethanol into petrol.

VSPe Power Plus, VSPe and EPS from Millers Oils; Ethomix from Frost A R T Ltd; Ethanolmate from Flexolite all received an ‘A’ rating in the research which enables all these products carry an endorsement from the FBHVC. The endorsement is in the form of the FBHVC logo and the words: ‘endorsed by the FBHVC as a fuel additive for protection against corrosion in metals’.

All additive manufacturers and suppliers were approached in 2011 to provide test samples for this research which was designed to simulate storage in a vehicle’s fuel tank for a 12 month period.


The FBHVC’s conference last October majored on the effects of ethanol in petrol with presentations from industry experts. It identified three issues to be considered: corrosion, compatibility and combustion. The Federation has been represented at a Fuel Stakeholders meetings with the DfT.

For details of the products please contact:

Millers’ Oils – email: enquiries@millersoils.co.uk; website: www.millersoils.co.uk

Frost A R T Ltd – email: order@frost.co.uk; website: www.frost.co.uk

Flexolite – email: sales@flexolite.co.uk; website: www.flexolite.co.uk

[paul wilks]

It's some time since we discussed this on the website and I wonder if anyone has used any of these additives to combat the use of Ethanol in modern fuels. I am considering using Frost's Ethomix, having discussed very recently with one member his problems with his mechanical petrol pump on his Javelin which he put down to Ethanol. But before I do anything, what have other members' experiences been?

Thanks

Paul

[Keith Clements]

The first problem is proving that any malady that your fuel system has is down to ethanol. Many of the fuel system problems claimed to be prevented by these additives occurred before ethanol was introduced. They may stop them occurring with or without ethanol, and they may reduce the effect of ethanol, but are they worth it? I guess we need bodies like the FBHVC to give us impartial advice.

If you leave petrol in the car that is laid up for 6 months and then only drive 500 miles a year, then I think you will need a very special additive to prevent any issues. As part of laying up, drain the tank and blow out the carbs and pipes. Much better use the car every month!

Not only will your fuel system be better but so will the engine, clutch , brakes, gearbox, tyres, .... and you.

[Keith Andrews]

I tend to go along the lines of Keith above.

I keep having memories of taking lead out of petrol....every tom dick and haary was marketing these special products the we NEED for our older cars to run on unleaded.. then there was the valve resescision issue, which they didnt bother to tell us cars before the spitfire didnt need hardened seats back then.

I find it strange that the interenal compusion engine can be made to run on , ethane, butanes, propanes, iso s of these, and mixtures of these without anything except change the timing because of an octane change.
But use the same old benzine compounds and throw in a bit of alocol...is going to cause huge issues

As when lead was removed, fuel line/ pump / carb seals. diaphams needed to be upgraded from the old compound..because SOME of the old ones would be attacked with the new compounds in the unleaded...
OK fair enough...and as it happens many of these cars had such things rebuiled repaired with the new compounds over the previous 10 yrs anyway.
BUT the unleaded used some new more volitile compounds to 'replace' the lead... these perminate thru plastic petrol containers, evaporate rather quick , and since they have to do wit the octane, once gone , if in the tank the car runs like crap, if it starts at all
Bottom line the conversion , in retrospect was as crazy as the so called Y2K bug.

Now we come to adding ethanol....
Back in the 70s I had a source for cheap alcohol, I had a hillman super minx and GL hunter both ran 10% ethanol...the misty 1850 and celeste ran very well on it to... The superminx I had to replace the rubber joins in the fuel lines.

Also During the War, most cars and the jeeps up in the Italian campain had non leaded engines...Then they discovered putting spitfire leaded fuels in the jeeps went REAL well....for a week, which was long enough for the 'word' to get around.
Then they started to die. I belive Patton(?) was spitting tacks because it held up some big planned move.

I do know that the ethanol mix has a different SG, it is lighter.
This doesnt matter on a ECU injected engine as the computer will reprogram the mixture accordingly. BUT on a carb engine, The carb should be dialed in again
The other issue is the speed of the flame to max cyclinder pressure is slower....again on modern ECU engines the computer takes care of it, on a mechanical dizzy the timing curves should also be redialed in.
And if your fuel hoses, diaphams etc are not of approved compoiunds, upgrade them.
AND if the car is an occassional driver, leave the petrol tank near MT...and throw a gallon or so of fresh fuel in when do use it.

And that is exactly all that was required when they took the lead out.