SHOULD WE SAVE A FEW/SOME/OR ALL OF EXISTING JOWETT SPARES?

[AlanBartlett]

Some brands are appreciating in value in the current climate, which is yes a good thing, but sometimes i think there also pricing people out of that market. Especially some people of the younger generation, now they may not know of the marque but its still a fair amount for a classic car pre 1980s Which it may benefit all the people in the current know how, but when it comes to a point when people start/are ceasing, whats going to happen if no one knows what to with them? I certainly hope not the scrap pile because all the work we put in now will seem pointless if it just dies off in future. But then again its the attraction and appeal and difference between a generation or three.

[george garside]

We would have needed greatly enlarged Jowetteers to print the comments on this thread and editing them down to a few lines each would have lost a great deal of the feelings expressed. I presume someone on the executive committee will have had the sense to print the lot off & circulate them to exec members prior to the meeting!??

george

[Tony Fearn]

Nice one George,

Perhaps a percentage of the current JCC members won't know that you had the heady title of Hon. Ed. for a good number of years in the past, and I agree with you that all the Exec. committee should read the deliberations on this JowettTalk thread before discussing the spares situation at the April meeting.

I also commend Forumadmin's comments earlier today.

Perhaps the final decision should be put off until the next Exec. meeting in case we haven't seen the end of the discussion just yet.

Tony.

[Srenner]

Not to hijack the thread, but a rebuilt, re-bushed, all new components, ready-to-go distributor runs about $150-$175 plus shipping here in the US. Your choice of original curve or a more modern one.

My opinion is that nothing should be tossed if at all possible. For a long time, we trashed Frogeye bonnets that had rust or some collision damage. Now, an original bonnet in rusty and crumpled shape goes for up to $1000, with nice ones pulling $2500. Moss Motors sells replacement body panels (very poor fit), but it is unlikely anyone will ever repop Jowett body panels.

[Chris Spencer]

Well done all for involving yourselves in this important debate - I will go back to the points that I made in earlier postings & echoed by others:

Once whatever parts are gone - they are gone and the cost of remaking say a Javelin front wing would be cost prohibitive to say the least.

So who makes the decision on what gets scrapped - is it some one that has a interest in the club, gives their time freely and has been a member for a significant period, but a member that is unaware of modern welding techniques and sends all his / her welding / paintwork to a professional bodyshop.

Or can that decision process be made by someone who is aware of modern low heat welding techniques and would not think twice about making a good panel out of two poor ones.

We can not base the decision on the volume of panels we need to stock on the turnover of panels through JCS over the last ten years - neither can the decision be made on the quantity of panels required to maintain the vehicles on the road during our own lifetime.

What is imperative is that we secure sufficient stock to ensure the vehicles are kept roadworthy, that means a supply that can enable the restoration of the cars that keep coming to light (over the last year I can count at least 10 Javelins let alone other models that have come to the market requiring restoration)

Keith I am mad busy with the day job but if you get chance could you please print off the 5 pages of JT discussion and I shall take it with me to the exec on Saturday.

There has been some great debate here on the forum along with some clear ideas / viewpoints on the way forward however the one disappointing issue is that with exception of Keith - no one from the committee has made comment or even acknowledged the debate on JT.

[george garside]

inbloodydeed!

[Jack]

I was disappointed to see comment that the debate seemed to have slowed - from the end of Feb the debate (if anything) has been more lively between members here than ever before.

One reason why the comments on the forum are critically important is because most of the younger members of the club, who are still going to be rebuilding cars in 50 years time, are on here and debating the subject.

I don't, typically, write "letters to the editor" in the Jowetteer - I tend to use this medium for such things and to interact with members. By the time something is written in the Jowetteer to which I write a response/query/suggestion, a response has been issued, three months has gone by. Three months is an eternity in a world where I can get e-mails from the other side of the world in seconds.

If we debate the subject via the Jowetteer, waiting for everyone to have their input, we won't have made a decision until 2020. By my count we have had 66 posts in this thread, that would take approx 5 years to get the same level of debate and engagement via the Jowetteer.

Jack.

[Keith Andrews]

no one from the committee has made comment or even acknowledged the debate on JT

.
I dont think that is entirely a far comment..it puts exective members on the spot.
I have no idea of the UK politics.
If an excective member posts it would have to make it very clear if those comments where a personal opinion /veiw piont or if those comments where a veiw piont of the exective...Even so it is not advisable in most cases for exective members to comment out of committee on subjects under current consideration.
Sometimes being an exective member of a committee or club/organisation one is caught between to places which is often critiseed unfairly by members.

[Tim Neville]

This very useful thread has, amongst other things, given indication of the inevitable growth, speed of communication and power of the online Jowett community. Others have previously mentioned that Executive members should be heard from here, I agree, they ignore us at their peril. Just how many posts have been made in the last 3 years by our 'leaders'? They might stand aloof thinking that it is all just repetitive 'chit chat'. Some of it is lightweight stuff, but a lot is most significant and people - especially the young - relate to this method of communication. Things originate, get acted upon and happen fast here! It is high time that the Executive took proper notice of and acted in concert with JowettTalk, after all they're supposed to be acting for all members.
I find this place as relevant and interesting as The Jowetteer, maybe more so.

[george garside]

The JOwetteer & this website are at the moment organised & run by different club members and it should not be forgotten that like all other club activities they are run on the voluntary efforts of those concerned. The JOwet Car Club is no different from many other clubs & voluntary organisations in that there is rarely a queu of members eagerly awaiting to take over the running of different essential bits of club organisation.

Having said that this 'spares' thread and indeed other threads indicate that there is now perhaps a need for a little 'cross polination' between the two communication organs of the club. Perhaps a regular page iin the Jowetteer could be dedicated to listing "current threads on Jowett Talk" with perhaps an indication of the number of (?recent) postings on such threads . This would help to increase interest in and use of Jowett talk and its interactive nature.. It would also help to comittee members to keep up tp date with opinion on a wide range of relevent topics as they werre being debated, often by members who for whatever reason don't or can't participate in regular section meetings & activities.

george

[Keith Andrews]

The JOwetteer & this website are at the moment organised & run by different club members and it should not be forgotten that like all other club activities they are run on the voluntary efforts of those concerned. The JOwet Car Club is no different from many other clubs & voluntary organisations in that there is rarely a queu of members eagerly awaiting to take over the running of different essential bits of club organisation.

Just putting things in perspective again

Im the web master and own run the servers for the NZ club and for the branches, as a volunteer.
Yes I have my ideas, concepts etc...which I put forward to the excecitives...
I firmly believe right or wrong, at the end of the day it is the excectives that make the desiscions and what they say goes.
If what I do repesents the club, which it does it must, according to westminster rules, I do what Im told.
What Im told is the result of discussion at the extectives level.

This would help to increase interest in and use of Jowett talk and its interactive nature.. It would also help to comittee members to keep up tp date with opinion on a wide range of relevent topics as they werre being debated

On the other side exective members are democratically elected to represent the members....the issue of ppl not lining up is irrelivent...old saying "A country deserves the government it gets"
On the other hand any committee exective should be following opinions and thought of the forums IF these forums exist as approved repreentntation of the club for open discussion....I assume they are???
If this is not the case then , as with a government, they can be voted off....if there is not new blood..the club gets what it deserves....that is how democracy works right?...and the members dont have an argue ment to grizzle about.

Also keep in mind with exectives , they often have to make INFORMED calls...there are parameters outside common knowledge that are not or can not be disclosed in open forum....that go against common opinion... thats a fact of life.
I dont know who nor never met as far as Im awaer who your exective is what they are like or anything else...
But I have spent many decades on committees , president, VP, secratary, commitee and sub committee member of many organisations from Parant teacher organisations, school board of trustees, union exect, hot rod clubs to name a few.

I also note in most cases I aways had my resignation written out on the table beside me...If someone believed they could do a better job the where welcome to stand for election .....I never had to us it... funny that.

Im not pionting this at anyone....just a few pionts to consider before throwing stones around at volunteer committees... f they deserve it throw the stones AND if u are prepared to step up to the mark to do the job better.

[Leo Bolter]

Ladies and Gentlemen.
George said:

Perhaps a regular page iin the Jowetteer could be dedicated to listing "current threads on Jowett Talk"

That is exactly what is being done in the LE VEloette Club. Their Forum is a sort of "branch" of the LE Club, which although based in the UK, is a International Club, but there is a scribe who contributes a run down on what's been discussed on the forum. This is then included in their magazine for the benefit of the whole membership.

This Jowett Forum is a just a wee bit different in that although it is also International, there are several independent, but associated National Club's members involved in posting their opinions, hints etc.. But, there's no reason why each National Club, which has a Magazine, can't have a "reporter" who writes a resume of current postings that are of perceived revelance in the (say) last month, leaving out the chit chat and sending the condensed version to their Editor for inclusion in the local Magazine (Jowetteer, Flat Four etc.). This is much as is already being done by JCC of NZ member Bob Culver with his resumes (published in "Flat Four") of the contents of the "Overseas Club Magazines" which have been exchanged with other clubs for the Magazine of the JCC of NZ. That way the other people who don't regularly (or never!) look at our International Forum, may get curious enough to find out more and even get "with it" and get onto a computer and maybe join in!! . . . . after all's said and done, NOBODY'S deprived of access to computers these days if there's a Library within reasonable reach. (but maybe for some folk the inclination may be missing . . . . and will be forever )

[PAUL BEAUMONT]

I thought, that as my name occurs inside the front cover of the Jowetteer I would add to this discussion. It seems that this is getting to be a bit like a trades union congress where the members can think of lots of things that their elected officials could and should be doing. The difference here is that all of the officials of the JCC give their time freely (it does mean that the final salary pension at 100% of salary looks good on paper!!)
Let me enlighten you into my evening: I left work at 5.15, drove 40 miles home, ate half my evening meal, left home at 6.30 to hopefully arrive at JCS (25 miles away) before The Archers blessed Radio 4 at 7pm. I spent 2 hours as part of the team, picking your orders, dismantling and correcting racking etc, before leaving at 9.10 to drive the 25 miles home and finish my evening meal. A similar story would come from each member of the team.
Why do we do it? I can't speak for the others, but I do it as a service to the club that I have happily been a member of since 1980 and because I am a fan of the Bradford, with which I have been associated all my life. Next Saturday I will leave home at 6.30 am to join other members of the team to travel to the West Country in a long wheel base Transit to collect a stash of parts that have been stored by a patient JCC member for the past 30 years. I know, I helped put them there when JCS was called Ferroll. We will be joined there by JCC Chairman Geoff Wills who, for the past 6 months has been heavily engaged in the arrangements for this year's rally
Now on to the subject in hand: this topic was only raised initially because members of the JCS team were and are concerned about the service that they provide and the way that they spend your money. We have about 500 full memberships each paying a £5.00 spares levy. That just about covers our rent, so what we store is directly proportional to the levy. As sackcloth and ashes in volcanic proportions is usually required when the suggestion of an increase in subscriptions is mooted I can fully understand the concern. A concern that was expressed at the recent Exec where Drummond Black explained everything that he is trying to do to mean that there just might be no increase in subs next year. I too hoard everything and would happily join with the band that says that we should throw nothing away, but I see an element of two-facedness here.
All of the correspondents of this topic who make great play of their computer/internet skill will doubtless be aware of an on-line auction site known as Ebay. On at least half a dozen times over the past year a Javelin engine has been advertised at c£450. It "may need some welding to the block" and it "might have an oval web crankshaft" and the enterprising seller has remover the heads to reveal that the bores are "not too rusty" To the best of my belief it has never sold! Why not? because in all probability it is utterly cream crackered! Someone should surely put their money where their key board fingers are and go and buy it? A few weeks ago that same auction site had several lots of Bradford engine parts listed. Only one lot sold - I know, I bought it. I will probably never use it but pass some of it onto a fellow enthusiast in their hour of need. If you visit that same site tonight and check Jowett/cars and parts/used parts you will find that there are 8 lots all with no bids. £150 would buy the lot, though you would have to criss-cross the country a bit garnering it all up.
Now every Monday night I trip over a Javelin engine in similar condition to the one on Ebay. JCS has all of the s/h parts currently listed. If all such parts must be preserved would someone please buy them?
The folks at JCS are continually striving to make your money go as far as it possibly can so that you can keep your vehicle on the road for as long as possible at the lowest possible cost. That is why new lines are continually added to stock, to better service you and to ensure that rarely requested parts can be available when the request comes. They are increasing racking density etc to help do this, but it is simply impossible for JCS to hoover up every rotten door, boot lid etc that comes available. Funds would surely be better spent tooling lower door repair sections etc than keeping 20 doors in similar condition to those on a restoration project?
Paul Beaumont

[Keith Andrews]

It seems that this is getting to be a bit like a trades union congress where the members can think of lots of things that their elected officials could and should be doing.

I like that...then, If past, the officals then spend all their time trying to get around the unrealist impractabities of those remitts...not very different from a Volunteer Club committee in many ways.

[Tony Fearn]

The difference here is that all of the officials of the JCC give their time freely.

This quote is of course only one of the many points touched upon in Paul's late night post six days ago, but like him, I have known (in the past 50 years) very many other Club members that have given, and are still giving, an inordinate amount of their personal time to keep the Club going, and not all of them 'officials'. It's thanks to them, past and present, that we still have this amazing collection of like-minded Jowetteers.

My original post was meant to supplement the deliberations first mooted in the Jowetteer magazine through the wider, instant use (as someone said in their post some days ago) of our website.

There have been 73 posts since February 10th this year, and I don't think that in any of them there has been criticism of 'officials', just an abiding interest in furthering the discussions about the subject of spares.

I expect, (not now being an executive committee member any longer) that this was an agenda item at the recent Exec. meeting. Can anyone let us know what was discussed?

Tony.