Javelin spin off oil filter adaptation

[paul wilks]

Many years ago I bought from Bill Lock a "Spin off oil filter adapter kit" for my Javelin.
I have tried to contact Bill without any luck.
If anyone else bought one from Bill for fitting to the Javelin (I guess the Jupiter is the same but am not sure!) I'd be grateful to know what type of oil filter should be fitted if/when I convert the oil filter set up.

Thanks

[Robin Fairservice]

If this is similar to the Flexolite adaptors, you must make sure that the oil filter cartridge does not have a one was flap, or anti drain, feature because the Jowett engine oil goes the opposite way to other engines. It goes through the middle and back around the outside. I have learnt the hard way when I wondered why I didn't have any oil pressure.

[paul wilks]

Thanks Robin. Do you have a make and part number please?

[David Morris]

Hi Paul,

I have fitted the Flexolite oil filter conversion and the suitable filters are type numbers are GFE 173 or PH 2964. I think the first number is a Unipart filter and the second one is the Fram filter. I believe the 'normal' fitting for these filters is on the Ford CVH engine. They are commonly available from any car part store.

I can recommend the conversion, but do make sure you replace the rubber gasket in the original housing before fitting the Flexolite adapter. These are right little pigs to get out and I have even found several squashed in, where previous owners have tried to save effort in digging them out. However, once the Flexolite adapter is in place, you never need to change it again!

Also, when fitting the adapter have a good look at the cast boss for the oil pressure gauge pipe take-off. The union fitting is a taper thread and we have found several rear timing cover castings have split at this point. This produces an oil leak that is hard to spot when the filter is in place. We have had to get rear timing case covers welded and then re-tapped with a parallel thread, with new adapters, in order to salvage castings.

All the best,

David

[PJGD]

Gentlemen,

A couple of corrections are in order here:
1) Robin; actually the oil circuit on the Javelin is conventional with respect to the flow through the filter. That is to say it enters the filter housing on the outside of the element [where the element has the largest surface area to capture dirt], through the filtration media, and then out through the cross-holes in the filter retaining "spud" and then out through the top banjo bolt connection to the oil cooler - see my attached unfinished sketch of the plumbing in this area.

If you had a no oil pressure situation, it would have been due to some other factor such as the filter drain bolt having been replaced by a short bolt that exposed the drilling back to the sump, or to the correct bolt not being fully home.

2) David; the oil pressure tapping on the back of the oil filter housing is [or was originally] a parallel BSP thread with a fibre or possibly a copper washer under the hex to make the seal. This was not a very robust solution which did on occasion lead to leaks at this point resulting in over-tightening and boss cracking at the thin section underneath. I can well imagine that some people may have replaced the parallel thread with a self-sealing taper thread which might aggravate the boss-cracking issue, but that was not a Jowett feature.

Philip

[Robin Fairservice]

Sorry, but for my car I am right. I should have been clearer about my car which is a 1950 model with the Green Vokes filter. On page 12 of my Maintenance manual there is a drawing of the oil circulation system, clearly showing the oil proceeding through the centre and returning along the outside. Later engines have the Brown Techalemit oil filter and page 31 of the later Maintenace Manual has a similar drawing with the oil flowing up the outside and returning down the middle.

In my discussionwith Flexolite they said: "There are filters available without non-return and pressure relief valves. These were fitted to Austin BMC 'A' engines in early Minis and some Midgets and these are the ones you should use. They are:

Mann W712
Crosland 573
Coopers Z25"

Apparently they had tested tha Mann W712 and cross checked the others. I was able to get a Mann W712 in Western Canada.

[Forumadmin]

I learn something every day!

[Leo Bolter]

Yes, it's true!.

I was privy to the problems that Robin was having. This involved lots of mail back and forth to Neil Moore here in NZ and eventually to discussion with Flexolite, the manufacturers of the adaptor. I was invited by Neil, when I was visiting in the New Year, to read the "conversation". Robin had checked everything that he and Neil could possibly check . . . drain bolts, stuck relief valve, pump overhaul, joints, etc. etc. . . . there was just NO oil pressure when using the new adaptor and the recommended filter that was fitted to it . . . . The manufacturers of the adaptor apparently knew nothing of the early version of the oil flow path and had assumed that they were all the same on the Javelin/Jupiter engines and so advertised them as such. They have since (when pointed out to them by Neil) changed their advertising and instruction sheet, I believe.

So, the filter cartridge that had been recommended had a non return "flap" in it to check the runback under normal circumstances, but of course with the flow going in reverse to present conventions the valve acted as "through flow preventer"! There are, fortunately, cartridges available without any flap that do the job when the engine uses the "old system".

NOTE: With the older engine flow from the inside to the outside of the filter, I would make very sure that the outer surface is well reinforced against the outward pressure (perhaps by a perforated cylinder outside of the corrugated filter element material material). This has been the subject of much writing on the LE Velocette forum when I suggested a modification that I'd done on my machine to utilise a modern paper element. In this case we could alter the plumbing to reverse the flow to outside to inside (but people wanted to know "why bother"!). Research on the Web had shown that some BMW motorcycles had suffered burst filters when "cheap" unsupported elements had been used!

The early engine's oil flow path through the filter

[PJGD]

Apologies, Robin.
Yes, I see that too in the early Maintenance Manual. I thought that most such engines had been converted over to the later filter housing, but perhaps not.

I always thought that the Vokes filter canister was of different dimensions that the later Tecalemit unit (longer but smaller diameter). If true, I assume that the original replacement element was different from the later element, but also that the spin-on filter adapter would have to be different too. The point that Leo makes is important too about the outside of the element needing to be reinforced to handle the pressure difference across the element particularly under cold start conditions. Certainly, the NAPA Gold 1300 element that is correct for the Tecalemit filter is reinforced both inside and out - see photos below:

Philip

[paul wilks]

Thanks everybody. Good grief, though! I have really opened up a can of worms. And I thought it would be a simple case of replacing the ‘old’ filter with a particular new spin off type. Now we are talking about reinforcing the cartridge etc. Any other experiences of using modern spin off type oil filters?
It sounds like it might be easier to stick with the original set up- as long as the cartridges are available that is!

[george garside]

me too! I thought the whole idea of using an adaptor was to enable the use of a modern 'throw away 'filter, surely somebody must make an adapter so to do?

george

[george garside]

perhaps this should be posted on pre war but for what its worth the late Doug Hoyle machined an adapater out of an old piston to fit on the side of the crankcase of his 1938 * to which a modern 'throw awy' filter could be screwed and this bearing in mind that the pre war twins only had a 'brick trap' in the sump. So machining an adapter for modern throw away filters for Javs/Jups cchould not present any engineering problems.

george

[Leo Bolter]

George, you remarked:

I thought the whole idea of using an adaptor was to enable the use of a modern 'throw away 'filter, surely somebody must make an adapter so to do?

Yes, this post is still about using the "spin on - all in one metal canister containing the filter medium" with the centre boss that screws into the adaptor (Flexolite brand), on early as well as later engines. BUT you MUST use the correct throw away unit for the particular engine, i.e. one with NO flap in them with the early engine that has the "inside to outside" oil flow through them.

Confusion of what we were originally discussing may have come with the illustration (as posted by Philip) of the type of internal reinforcing I was advocating. That illustrated element is of course meant for a "keep the canister and throw away the element" as used on the engines originally (whether a "long filter" or "the shorter version".

Personally, I'm sticking with the "old fashioned" original filter system on my Jupiter. I keep a super-magnet in the canister and although it's a messy process doing the element change it gives me a opportunity to take the time, now and then, to wash the canister, element and magnet in a long container using Kerosene, while blowing air from the inside. This dislodges a representative sample of what's been filtered out of the oil. Then after letting the dirty Kero stand for a while, I decant the majority of the Kero off and do a bit of the old "gold panning" technique so I can see what stuff is left behind (if any). If the panning is done in a plastic plate the magnet, when drawn around underneath the pan, can be used to separate any ferrous material from the carbon (and hopefully NOT, the white metal and bronze!). This just allows me to keep and eye on what's worn in the engine . . . very little thank goodness! (Unlike that which is worn under the Scotsman's kilt )

[Forumadmin]

I echo Leo's comment at looking at the excrement from the engine in the same way that medieval doctor's did. It tells you a lot about the health or otherwise of the engine.

[Peter Mallinson]

Just the subject I was wanting to discuss, my Javelin had the oil filter conversion when I bought it. I have recently tried to get a replacement cartridge from Halfords,
as the one fitted is a Halfords part number HOF 251. I was told the part had been dicontinued and they could not tell me what the replacement was, if any. Thanks to this discussion I now have the part number. Cheers, Peter.