SHOULD WE SAVE A FEW/SOME/OR ALL OF EXISTING JOWETT SPARES?

[ian Howell]

All this seems to provide food for thought, so picking up the point about a central 'register' of AVAILABLE parts in the hands of individuals, what about something similar to the Gallery?

Owners could put their 'spare' stock - or anything they might be prepared to part with - in a 'searchable' form accessable by all (or only club members?), possibly in association with a 'wanted' section. Once this was set up the administration and running costs would be zero.

I have no idea about the practical or legal aspects of this, but I have a feeling that SOMEONE must have the necessary IT skills.

Whether they have time is another matter!

[george garside]

My feeling is that complications such as a searcheable data base etc ( simple as it may be to some) would add complication to the degree that many would be 'listers' would not bother listing their stuff, whereas a simple 'add your stuff to the page' type of listing would be easy for all members with internet access to do ( or get a friend to do) without the need for any IT person to have input. \it would require members to spend some time 'rooting' through the , hopefully long, list of stuff but this would surely present little hardship in relation to the potential reward Of finding affordable or unusual bits.

My suggestions for a 'simple & sustainable' 3 part scheme are made bearing in mind that a system is needed that takes into account the fact the average age of members is steadily increasing at the same time as interest in pre 50(ish) vehicles is steadily decreasing ( just look at the content of any 'classic car magazine!) Therefore, unless I have got it badly wrong, there will eventally not be the person power to provide the labour required for anything over elaborate. Not only will membership numbers inevitably decline but future generations may not be interested in 'oily hands & rusty bits of metal' preferinga the, oincreasingly common in the" classic scene ", professional cheque book restoration & maintenance and/or trailering cars to events and not actually using them at all on the road. Just thoughtsd!

[ian Howell]

Well at least we are getting some lively discussion! I didn't so much mean a database, after all it is perfectly possible to search Jowett Talk for keywords so why not a similar arrangement for a spares listing?

To find that Bill Smith and Tommy Atkins both have, say, a spare early Javelin offside suspension unit would be helpful. To know that one was about 20 miles away and the other say 120 miles, would be an added benefit.

Howard Kennitby?

[Tony Fearn]

Well at least we are getting some lively discussion!

That's good, as time is running out before the Executive Committee has to make a decision about how we go forward. Once the decision is made the Club's spares stock will be organised within the parameters of the ruling. This of course doesn't include all the personal stock that various members have in their possession, and there have been some erudite suggestions on what to do about this in the future.

We've had some well thought out responses to the problem, from a very small minority of the total membership of The Jowett Car Club of Great Britain, along with welcome comments from several international members of JowettTalk who have the same interest in the future of spares for our vehicles.

There are of course many more subscribers to JowettTalk than those who have already entered into the discussion, and I’ve met quite a few of you at various events over the years. If you remember, and see your name below, (and it isn’t a definitive list), then let’s have your thoughts before the end of ‘The Final Countdown’ in April.

Hello again:- Keith, David (x2), Ken, Ted (x2), Drummond, Greg, Alastair, Alan (x2), Hendrick, Edmund, Andrew, Noel, Amy, Andy, Tony (not me!), Vic, Patrick, Geoff (x2), Chris (x2), Sue, Ian, Steve, Trevor, Brian, Alf, Moises Jnr, Jack, John, Martin and many others.

Tony.

[george garside]

lets hope Tony's last post provides ' un coup de pied dans le cul' to the more lethargic amongst us!

george

[Jack]

I think there are many of us that are reading, engaged with the debate, but not really sure what the answers are here so aren't able to contribute much - this is a discussion we have had over dinner a few times and I am yet to hear (or come up with) a solution that I think is the right one.

We all seem to want the same thing - the best possible availability of spares in the future at the lowest possible cost to members. That will require a lot of hard work, and decisions are going to have to be made at some point on the spares we have to manage the costs of storage.

It is interesting to me that we do a good job of making spares available, between JCS and the businesses that are involved in Jowetts a lot of parts are available off the shelf - however the fewer cars produced quite naturally the rarer the spares. Many other marques and clubs struggle with the simplest of things - original and solid front wings for a Capri for example (24 million manufactured in the 70s and 80s) are incredibly rare. Pattern parts exist, but are not of the same quality and there is a visible difference. In the 90s nobody could imagine a classic car market for them so they just scrapped parts that were "worthless" and now owners struggle with even a simple panel. That was less than 20 years ago, and damaged front wings can easily contribute to a restoration project being uneconomical - leading to another car being scrapped.

Whatever happens, doing nothing doesn't seem to be an option, and the decision to release any parts to scrap will not be one easily taken.

As a person who currently has an entire shed full of spares, most of which are unuseable and would cost more to restore than to remake, I guess I am reluctant to tell the club that it should be scrapping spares, but don't have a good answer on the alternatives.

My feeling is that we are caught between a rock and a hard place, and we need to include this in our long term plan as a club from consultation with the membership. As the cliche goes - If we fail to plan, we plan to fail.

In order to make any decision, we do need to know a few things:

1. What have we actually got?
2. How much are the parts we have worth as scrap?
3. How much will they cost to store?
4. Is there a market for them now?
5. Will there be a market for them in the future?

Jack.

[Leo Bolter]

Has anyone in the UK JCC thought to contact the other Jowett Clubs in the world scene to see what they are doing in this spares storage regard?

Aussie may have a system and New Zealand most certainly has spares stores (they have been working well for "donkey''s ages"!). In New Zealand the actual JCC of NZ has a large shed (to give a idea of size, It's floor area could possibly accommodate 4 or 5 cars), in Auckland. This is the home of the clubs' Jowett Parts (NZ). Land rental is being paid I think.

The Northern Branch of the club also has a couple of shipping containers in a semi-rural area for small and large second hand parts. The containers are nearby to a workshop where they have a weekly (I think) evening meetings for working on cars, coffee and scones and a bit of a gossip . This workshop "social centre" is owned by a club member and they may pay him some sort of a "peppercorn" rental.

Central Branch has nothing in the way of communal storage . . . just whatever individuals keep in their personal stock.

I understand that the Southern Branch have a couple of shipping containers with a roof joining them. (also in a semi-rural area and near to other Car Club premises). That's where their Branch spares are kept. There is a clubroom set up there too I believe. Land rental may also be paid. I haven't been there so I may be incorrect about their set-up.

I think it'd be best to direct questions to the Spares Executive of Jowett Parts (NZ) and the Branches themselves than go by what I perceive as being the situation.

Best regards.
Leo.

[Jack]

Is there some scope for sections to have some storage arranged locally? Are there members in a particular section which may have storage, and others in that section who might be prepared to act as point of contact for what they have? It might only need to be a single car space for each section.

It may open up the spares section a bit for members to be able to collect spares from somewhere local, and moving parts between sites becomes easier when members orders are consolidated - becomes a sort of depot for orders from JCS, avoiding the potentially large cost of shipping heavy or cumbersome parts with reduced risk of damage. As a recent example we really need a few doors for various cars - they aren't particularly heavy, but they don't fit on a pallet, and it would require a special journey of approx 3 hours to collect. If others locally wanted a few things, we could get JCS to put together a shipment for several people and one person make a trip to collect and bring the items to the section location for collection and/or payment.

Jack.

[p.p.]

for me a trip of 3 hour would be a pleasur to do..... your got luck to have the spare so near by!!!!!!!!!!!!
peter

[Chris Spencer]

I have remained tight lipped on the subject matter through Jowett Talk - so far , I have however expressed my thoughts to our chairman on the subject in written correspondence and have now included them below. It has been refreshing to see active discussion on the subject from other members but it would be nice to see some acknowledgement of the discussion from members of the committee

Reserve / second hand spares stock – I understand that we presently are overwhelmed with a secondary parts stock that we struggle to accommodate / store. Whilst a sort through and a sales weekend may reduce some of the stock it will still leave a significant amount of sock, whilst the scrapping of some parts that are slow moving may also free up some space for the more scarce parts stock. However, when this stock is gone ‘It’s gone’ ! the possibility of replicating them will be highly unlikely - especially body panels. What we have all got to take into consideration is that the parts supply needs to be available not just for our generation but for future generations.
Although prized and loved by many, Jowett’s will never achieve the values that other classic brands have – therefore the chance of economically reproducing body pressings such as Javelin wings & door skins will be very slim. Whilst I do not have any issue on the scrapping of poor quality parts such as body panels my question lays on who makes the decision. Would this be someone who has owned Jowetts for many years and gives there time freely, but has never repaired or welded body panels, or would it be someone that holds significant experience of repairing panels / making one good panel out of two and retains restoration industry experience. If you require my help in this process please do not hesitate to ask.
This still leaves the problem of where we keep / store the reserve / secondary stock. Rather than have the issues of acquiring & maintaining a fabric premise could I suggest an alternative route (already tried & tested with another trust that I have an involvement with). Shipping containers offer ready & secure storage and are available for about £1,000 each – several containers would no doubt resolve the storage issue but we would require somewhere to place them. Could we make an appeal to our members, is there a member out there that is a farm / small holder / land owner that is willing lease the club a small piece of land on a peppercorn rent that would site the containers. Failing which could the club consider the lease / purchase of a piece of land on which to site the containers. It could be elsewhere in the country but would require one or two members to manage the stock. Should we ever have to relocate or move the containers it becomes a simple load & go process with a crane mounted commercial vehicle. I use containers on a everyday basis with my work and over the years built up a number of contacts in the sale / supply of containers along with suitable contract hauliers. My employment in the management & delivery of environmental civil engineering contracts gives access to a wealth of knowledge & contacts, so should we have to civilise an area of land / create access – it can be readily accommodated on a cost only / free of charge basis. Please let me know should you require any help.

[Forumadmin]

On this important subject I asked the SC Team to see if we could refrain from commenting to see what happened on the topic. Thanks to Tony for raising the subject on JowettTalk. I hope the chairman has received comment via snail mail and through section meetings as well; but it would be good if the committee's questions and the input they received was also shared on this forum. For those who cannot attend the exec meetings it is a way of interacting with people with common interests.

Of course, the SC team has discussed the subject on more than one occasion, as I hope, have all other meetings of Jowett owners. How many of us have a shed full of spares? We might,if asked, and if our grey cells have not been overtaken by other things, be able to remember what we have and, if we are very organised, be able to find it. There are few (if any) of us that keep a stock list of what we have. We probably all have similar desires to keep stuff but also recognise that few of us have the inclination to sort, list and categorise Jowett parts of dubious value. How many of us have done it for the shed full that most of us have? So let us do that first. Send the list to JCS, the Spares Officer or the SC team and we will consolidate so that at least we know what we have.
I do not think storage is the issue. It is being able to find "it" wherever "it" is.

Yes, there will be components that are well past their sell by date. So do we scrap them and who decides? Before eBay a lot of things were scrapped. Some people might even buy a Javelin door and make it into a sculpture. My point is that we need to tell people what we plan to scrap and have a process for making the final decision.

That process needs to look at the likelihood of the part ever being required. JCS and the other spares holdings of affiliate clubs keep records of the parts they sell, perhaps even some of those that need extensive work to get them serviceable. Combine this with knowledge of what is held by stores and members' personal stock to put a rarity versus demand value on each item based on say the next 50 years.

Consider a Javelin rear offside wing. We estimate we have 1000 currently on cars which might need replacing due to irrecoverable damage and this requires a supply of one every five years. Perhaps we estimate we need 10 more for chassis that are found in barns. That means we need 20 wings over the next 50 years. Let us say we have only 5 serviceable ones, but have 50 that could be recovered. We choose the best 15 and scrap the remaining 35.

If we know we have only 5 serviceable ones and 10 that require attention then we do not scrap any, but we also put feelers out to the owners to see if they have reserves and keep that knowledge on record. JCS could then make sure they have adequate stock and do batch runs of repair to keep the stock level of serviceable parts up to a desired amount. They do that for most parts anyway, which is what is prompting this discussion. They cannot see any probable need for some of the items they hold in stock.

Chris's point about what can be repaired is very valid and changes with technology and skills of people. We used to throw cylinder heads away that were cracked; but now they can be repaired.

Yes we can use the website to coordinate this but it does need ‘everyone’ with spare parts to list them, perhaps photograph them and send them by snail or email or post on the website.

Yes we can search through these lists either manually or using the website, everything is possible. We could even have a "Jowett eBay" where parts could be advertised with 5% going to club on sale

But it does need YOU to help.


Otherwise our cars will get rarer and we will not be fulfilling the club’s mission statement.

[ian Howell]

I suppose it would not be practical either to re-name 'Memorabilia' as 'Autojumble' or to creat another new section? Any entries would include the 'holder's' name, with possibly a trace to their eMail address, or even more details in the Membership list, AND it would be 'searchable'.

[Forumadmin]

Of course it is possible, but is not "cars and parts" the section to put parts in? You can for instance go to the section to limit the search to that section, in the 'search' box type "axle" then in the 'search the results' box type "Jupiter". You find all the Jupiter axles. Not foolproof but it helps. Note that hand written or typed lists can be optically character read (with difficulty and with manual intervention) but if you want to while away some time please volunteer. Worst case you look at the images of scanned paper lists on JowettTalk and find what you want.

Once we get the 100 lists from all you people with parts for sale, swap or disposal then we can move them to their own area. What it needs is for us to help each other catalogue what we have. Just spend a few hours each week with some friends making the list. Photocopy it , email it, scan it or enter it into JowettTalk. I do not mind how you share it; but we must do it.

I have many ideas on how best to organise the parts, and get them moving either to the repairers, people who want them or to an organised store but first we must know what we have and where "it" is and possibly what condition "it" is in.

Please bear in mind that you should not put email addreses, phone numbers or any other personal details on JowettTalk . It is read by the public and that includes people after your personal details. People can always be contacted by the Private Message or secure email facility of JowettTalk.

Better to share this information in the Gallery as a club service where only club members who we trust can view. Note we could go halfway and share the information with those registered on JowettTalk who at least have shown an interest in Jowetts in some way. That would mean creating a new forum like we have for 'remembrance' and 'website design' which is in the aptly named "co-operative space".

[Chris Spencer]

I do not think storage is the issue. It is being able to find "it" wherever "it" is.

Storage is the reason why the subject matter was raised initially - JCS are overrun with a second hand / reserve parts stock that is difficult to store in the present location - hence the question do we retain / scrap / sell off the slow moving secondary stock or find a way of storing the said parts - what is pretty clear of this debate is that no one wants to lose what maybe currently considered poor quality parts stock but has every chance of becoming lifesaving stock for future generation owners of Jowetts - I do not think that we have the perfect answer - what we do have however, are some very sound ideas for progressing this issue to a conclusion that would meet a happy compromise with the membership.

[AlanBartlett]

Not read much of this topic yet, but perhaps, we should save a few items, scale down the amount, to keep hopefully one of every thing for a pattern on a loan out basis, perhaps maxium three, all baring any loss of items, but even some of the more priceier items like cylinder barrels the club are looking at re casting and cost of it, but all depends on how late in the game the item is and how much use could be had from it.