SHOULD WE SAVE A FEW/SOME/OR ALL OF EXISTING JOWETT SPARES?

[Tony Fearn]

All of the Jowett Car Club members that receive the Jowetteer magazine will have read the letters about the above topic. A few eminent Jowetteers have written to the Editor, Alan, to share their thoughts with us through the magazine. Nevertheless, they are a small minority of JCC members, so I thought we might open a wider discussion on JowettTalk about the future of all the spares that are around the UK in various lofts, sheds, garages, and club sections as well as the JCS facility.

Perhaps JowettTalk members will find it easier to discuss this in this forum rather than writing formally to Alan.

Some topics die a death before they should, but I believe this is a rather important topic which should be thoroughly discussed, as the future of our motors might well depend on it.

So, if you're one of JowettTalk's 410 members, why not have your say? Don't leave it to the next person to reply, have a go yourself.

What do you think?

Tony.

[Robin Fairservice]

I would find it hard to say that we don't keep every thing. I really have no idea what spares are being considered as disposable. Perhaps the larger, slow moving parts should be stored in another, cheaper, location where they are accessed on a self serve basis, access being supervised. As the years go by, and people choose to restore older, poorer examples, then they could be lookiing for what is proposed to throw away now.

[george garside]

Speaking , or should it be writing, as aan asssociate member and therefore one with no vested interest in the sense of likely to be needing spares - my thoughts are.

1 The guiding principle should be to only throw stuff away as a very last resort. i.e. if no possible way can be found of preventing its destruction.

2. Within the above guideline various possibilities exist without any great cost to the club


Many members have accumulated large qu antities of spares that far exeed thier individual future needs . INstead of hoarding the surplus in the hope of it either coming in haandy or being worth alot of money ,perhaps such stuaff could be advertised in the Jowetteer at nominal prices to other members who can put it to good use. Obviously anaybody with stocks of surplus new craanksafts or whatevers could give JCS first go at a reasonable market price. When I sold my last JOwett I donated all my spares stock to JCS. raather than try to flog it myself.

Tere is a possible problem with large lumps eg javelinback axle casings which are rarely needed however sthe crown wheel & ppinion sets & half shafts may be worth keeping.

Anything vintage ( or?30's) should automatically be kept if only to provide patters for re manufaacture .

Storage of parts not deemed to fit into JCS stores - The important thing is aas I have said, to not destroy them. It doesn't really matter where they are and it may be that a few members with unused outbuilding may be able to help to store stuff donated by other members on the simple basis that JCS keep a record of the catagory eg, jav, brad, 7/8 etc & where they are. It would then be up to individual members to contact the 'storer' & arrange to go & root through stuff. Parts could be taken in return for a sugggested small donation which could go to the storer to cover his costs & inconvenience. This would in my opinion be simple, cheap to both the club & individual members, be sustainable, Would help the more impecunious members who can't lash out vast sums on new radiators crancases , induction pipes etc but who are able to be ingenious & spend time resurecting the dead!

To me talk of buying premises, employing staff etc would be total folly for a small club , especially consisdering the aging membership which will inevitably make the club smaller in future years.


george

[ian Howell]

I'm with George on this. Although I do not have much spare room in my densely packed garage I would be willing and able to store a few less desirable items to ensure their preservation. As George says, as long as their location is recorded and the 'storer' is able to grant reasonable access, what is there to lose?

If, for whatever reason, the parts get 'lost', they are no more 'lost' to the club than if they had been scrapped.

As long as the 'written off' stuff is not listed as a club asset, I don't think this would create a problem for any 'bean counters'.

As an aside: he is also dead right about back axles. Back in the early 70's I came across Torquay Motors where, to cut a long story short, the Service Manager offered me a complete, new, back axle, and also gave me a middle sized box of new spares. He also gave me the firm's Spares Catalogue and handwritten on the back axle page was the note: 'Order 1 complete unit. Won't need one for ages!

As I was on holiday with a full Javelin (4 adults and a dog), I couldn't take the axle but I passed the 'lead' on to a member in Cornwall. Can't remember who though.

[george garside]

I fully agree with Tony that this is a very important topic - so why only 3 postings? doesn't anybody anticipate a future demand for 2nd hand spares or is it apathy setting in!!"

george

[p.p.]

yes it very important !!!
it will be a topic in wales !!! to thing about and discuss it !!!
all good thing cost money, a lot of it !!!! profi or amateur......employe a person to keep it going....technical up date the center, "plug and play" system - laser-code....??!!

i depend on good spare parts, in switzerland is nothing to find !!! so for the section "rest of the world" is very esential to have a place like that !!

peter

[ian Howell]

Now that's a very good point from Peter.

Might it be worthwhile considering taking a lorry load of 'surplus' spares to Llandrindod and sharing them out to interested/willing parties? It would be a simple? matter for someone to record, for example: - 'Joe Bloggs, 2 nearside front Javelin wings' etc. Possibly more details on their location.

Just a thought. Comments please!

[craig ainge]

I think I understand the problem of storing second hand / large / bulky spares. Would there be value in asking each UK based JCC member if they would like to consider being the 'curator' of certain items. There would be an inventory of these items identifying the location and contact details of the 'curator' providing a record and access details. If everyone did their 'bit', it could mean that there woul dbe no need to consider 'disposal' of what are currently thought of as surplus to requirements.

[ian Howell]

Just So! Thanks Craig!

Any other offers?

[paul wilks]

Although my letter appeared in the Jowetteer in response to Geoff's article I thought I might as well include it here for reference for as much as it might be worth


I am responding to Geoff’s article in the Jowetteer of November. In my family I am known as a horder of all sorts of things (timber, sheet metal and of course Javelin bits and pieces). I hate throwing things away yet I realise that a lot of the stuff I keep I will never use (e.g. parts for the later suspension when mine is fitted with earlier suspension etc. etc.). I have found, however, that by my hording I have been able to help other members.

About forty years ago our local Jowett agents, H.O.Addis of Birkenhead, closed. With former member Peter Yarwood and my dad, we collected as much stuff as we could for £25 (!). Peter got a good Javelin, which he rebuilt; a spare engine and gearbox; rear axle; dashboard and various other things. I picked up a windscreen, windows and lots of other things but since I hadn’t much room in my dad’s garage at the time I was somewhat limited. There were many things I regret not rescuing, including a whole collection of Javelin, Jupiter, Bradford steering wheels (“What do you want them for?” said Peter and my dad (!!)); a whole load of body parts (but where could I keep them?) and even a complete new Javelin front scuttle (although where you would keep that and whether you would ever want one is I suppose debatable.

My point is, once you have thrown things like this away there is no going back. I hate the idea of scrapping items which are very slow moving- they might be needed one day. But there I go again, that’s the horder in me! We cannot afford to do nothing or the future might well be a car club comprising only those members who can afford to have parts made. I think we need to seriously consider moving on establishing (or at least debating establishing) a permanent facility in order to store not just original Jowett items but also those supplied by component manufacturers. As Geoff put it so well- once the parts have gone they have gone forever.

Paul Wilks

[Leo Bolter]

There's a very outside chance I might be able to help!

Rentable premises MAY be available in a building recently purchased by a club I'm a member of. They have bought the building next door to their existing Spares Department to allow them to expand their spares storage. They may be pleased to rent out part of the space to JCC (UK) for a similar endeavour to theirs. I don't know, but maybe there's excess room over and above their present requirements . . .

The building is in Walsall (which is . . . . I suspect you already know, just north of Birmingham).

If someone on "the JCC Committee" would like to contact me (preferably on Skype) I'll tell him/her what I know and put them on the right track to make a local followup with the that Club.

All this may very well come to nothing . . . . but if the question is not asked, then it most certainly will come to nothing

Regards to all.
Leo.

[Tony Fearn]

Thanks Leo,

I have copied your post in an email to our Chairman. We'll see what develops.

I'm still hoping many more of our members will get involved; - we've had to date 129 views and 10 replies. I don't know how many of the 'viewers' are really interested in what's going to happen to the spares we have at present, or whether the majority are actually Jowett owners, but we can only hope they take 'time out' to contemplate the problem, and put virtual pen to paper.

As Paul mentioned in his post, he's been able to help other Jowetteers with the excess spares he has. I too have frequent calls about the pre-war spares I have collected over the past 40-odd years, and have assisted in a number of restorations, the latest being a 1934 ‘Flying Fox’ in Norfolk. Some of the bits have been in one of the garages for 30 years. Last year I was able to supply a pair of 1934 front wings to help the re-build. Perhaps they were the last pair of such wings in the country. Just imagine how difficult, and of what cost, a pair of such wings would be today!

I am not alone in this. There are other long-time Jowett Car Club members, besides Paul and me, who have stocks of parts they no longer need, who can be prevailed upon to help out relatively new members, whatever vehicles they own. You only need to read the Jowetteer to see that this is happening.

The Jowett Car Club proudly exhibits 1923 on its letter-heading. Until the 1950s there was no need to bother about bits and pieces to keep our vehicles on the road.

During the 50s, 60s, 70s and even the 80s there was an abundance of spares around for all our vehicles, and then slowly, but surely, the fountain started to dry up.

Fortunately, the JCC Executive considered this many years ago, and instituted the Spares side of the Club, which has evolved over the years, through the voluntary efforts of very many members, to what we have today in Jowett Car Spares, still administered on behalf of us all by volunteers.

So:- It’s my opinion, that whatever original bits and pieces that Jowett Cars in Idle produced, they should all be kept as long as enthusiasts wish to keep their vehicles. In the past we kept the engine, prop-shaft and both axles and scrapped the rest.

I still have some original Jowett-produced pins to hold the interior handles onto the window winder mechanism and the door handle of my pre-wars, ‘Mary Ellen’ and/or ‘Sarah Jane’

A few of you might just think – “how sad is that”? Just try to find some now! (‘Discuss’ as this was only a facetious reference to the ridiculous, but what about the sublime?)

I’ve had a look through the list of members, and there are many of you whom I know personally, quite a number of whom I’ve also met at the National Autojumble held every year in September, at Beaulieu. If you’re only going for Jowett parts, save your money. Put your energies into debating the Jowett spares problem. There won’t be many bits left in Hampshire that will interest you if you’ve got a Jowett and like me, wish to keep it for 50 years – and some.

Keep up the debate. Get involved. Let’s know what you think.

Tony.

[george garside]

furthur thoughts!!! On the basis of not destrying aany spares it may be logical (according to garsides version of logic anyway!) to think of parts as falling into one of three catagories.

1. Posh new , new old stock, should be remain the province of JCS along with any second hand stock that they have storage facilities for.

2. Posh new, new old stock, used top condition with a reasonable resale value that are in the hanads of individual members but are considered unlikely to be used/ needed by the owner ( that would be his decision alone)

3. any other parts in the hands of individual members for which there is not a regular demand or which the member can no longer store and whcih he is willing to donate to the club to prevent destruction.


Items in catagory two could be listed by members on a designated part of this website (members only access) as being in the possession of ( whoever) and availabale for sale by neegotiation. This would be different from a normal 'for sale ad as it would sit for ever on website unless item removed by owner as sold or perhaps used by himself.

Items in catagory 3 to be stored by volunteer storers and a separate list of where such parts are be put up on this website aas availabale for a donation to storer to dhelp defray his costs/ inconvenience etc. This would mean these spares would be given to members as 'scrap metal' and neither the club nor the storer would have any liability. The lists in this catagory need only be broad eg pre war engine parts, jaavelin body parts, or whatever.i.e. the storer would not have the burdon of keeping a detailed inventory ( but of course could if doing so turned him/her on!)

Items in cataagory two that the owner decided at some future point should be in catagory three would be transfered to a 'storer' and become availble for storage donation.

Something on these lines would not put any extra workload or storage problems on JCS , Would require no administration ( the owners of cat2 stuff and storers of cat 3 stuff being responsible for listing on this website), It would mean that members all members would have permenat access to info on who is willing to sell what and where donated stuff is stored.

It may not be perfect but it is simple and sustainable and on that basis may well work.

The key however is that it requires owners of cat 2 parts to 'disclose' at least some of their hoards! and more importantly would be storers ofd cat 3 partsd to come forward. This may well make aan interesting activity for sections to be involved in to organise not only storage but working parties to transport & sort stuff etc.

george

[Tony Fearn]

furthur thoughts!!!

My word, your 'little grey cells' have been put to very good use. They've given us something to think about now. It's on the same lines as Craig's post a few days ago.
It's been very difficult in the past to find out just who has what in their hoard. If everyone declared what they have, we'd probably need a couple of defunct Woolworths stores to house it all, if it it was donated.

Nevertheless,I've a feeling that this "simple and sustainable" answer to the problems will generate further discussion.

What's surprising though is that the majority of respondents to this discussion, up to press, have been pre-war owners. I've a feeling that the subject of Jowett spares will come up again in the next Jowetteer.

Regards,

Tony.

[Tim Neville]

I've read all the posts so far and would offer the following personal comments.
Don't discard anything.
Parts will become rarer and rarer, and as they do they will command higher and higher prices with the result that only people with larger wallets will be able to service/restore Jowetts. This has already started to an extent. Some long standing members I've spoken with will attest to this. J.C.S. is vital and provides spares at reasonable cost. It does it's best to keep a steady supply, but it's interesting to note that sometimes when considering new manufacture, the take up is low and production for obvious cost reasons had to be shelved.
Big slow moving parts are a problem and here the idea of some members being parts 'stewards' could well be the answer. I've long been of the opinion that a full comprehensive 'realtime' database of all parts is needed (I know Iknow, what a job!), but just imagine if you could access and search online, check availability and order! And the natural result of this would be the ability to see at any time what parts were moving and needed replacement attention. Furthermore, if 'steward' or 'stockholding' members were included in the total stock level the system would keep an eye on them as well.
As has been said, there are members out there with many more parts than the individual requires, I know of someone with many crankshafts for example, now this is of course the right of the enthusiastic member/ collector who has no doubt paid for all these parts, but the number of parts, some critical, is finite and it would be good if the club was successful in promoting a more 'all in it together' ethos throughout the membership, and encourage the freeing up of parts to the club as a whole.
Commerce is what makes our capitalist world go round, and there are some out there who are only too pleased to see the value of their car and all the parts go up and up, the fundamental law of supply and demand, but the end result of this purely material value approach is that fewer people have and can run a Jowett. Does the club really want to be a very exclusive and expensive set of people, or does it want to expand and widen the interest in Jowetts?
Talking of computers and what they can achieve, I would mention that Iam a member of another vehicle club that due to internet communications and the ability to search, view and obtain parts from anywhere in the world, has grown enormously. Parts are now being made in considerable numbers that have not been made since the 1950's and interest in the marque has grown hugely in the last ten years to a very great extent due to internet communication and e-bay.