E Bay Javelin

[Chris Spencer]

1953 Javelin - LNP 767 - Solid looking project car on e bay - all there - running but no brakes - gold / beige interor - currently 4 bids to £750 - 6 days to go - car is in Peterborough - web link below:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... 4961768308

[David Morris]

Hi there,

It's a Standard Javelin, which makes it somewhat of a rarity! I am fearful that it will go to someone who will 'steal' the number and then scrap?

Hope this one is saved, it looks worth it!

All the best,

David

[Chris Spencer]

David - Should someone be out just to transfer the registration number off it - let me assure you they would have to go to a lot of trouble and expense - For a start the vehicle must have a current MOT - so they would have get the car to a MOT 'able standard first prior to being able to transfer the number - then pay the transfer fee to DVLA - on top of that they have to purchase the car in the first place - it's a very plain 3 letter 3 digit number worth about £800 on the open market - so I can not see the car being purchased by a plate stripper !!

[Chris Spencer]

Bit more info on this one as I thought I had seen it recently - it changed hands in June of this year at a classic car sale at Anglia Car Auctions in Kings Lynn for £695, I see that the present E bay vendor has now put a reserve on the car and the bidding has been retracted to £450

[robert lintott]

As Chris says , this Javelin was up for sale at auction earlier. I recall exchanging emails with Eden Lindsay at the time . It is listed in the JCC 2008 register as E2PD 14005 S, registered on 1/3/53. Owner then G.W. Fieldhouse. E2PD should mean it was made in 1952--as I understand the Jowett system-- it would have been quite normal to be in stock for 3 months.
However the odd point is that 14005 along with 4 other Javelins in the list is way out of sequence since Javelin production at that time was over 20000 units . I recall EL explained it was something to do with an export model --14015 was a type ED-- which possibly was sold on the home market. I can't recall all the details. In the production sequence 14005 would have been an E1 PC.
Although classed as "S" ie standard , it has deluxe bumpers and a dashboard which is more like a deluxe but not identical. It would seem it might have been a Jowett " special ".
An interesting car . Bob Lintott

[David Morris]

Hi Robert,

I am probably right off beam here, but I have a vague recollection that Jowett's had a number of stored Javelins towards the end of 1953. These were taken back into the factory and prepared for sale, as they were by then behind in modifications etc. I believe, but may be wrong, that Jowett's gave these cars chassis numbers starting with 14000? This may be one of those cars? Page 194 of the Complete Jowett History may give some clues?

What I am more certain of is that, despite having de luxe bumpers, she is a Standard model. Our Javelin is a 1952 model and has the same dashboard. The flush instruments are as used on later standards, although I have heard a rumour that they may be similar to those used on the still-born CD range? Look at the illustration on page 189 of the Complete Jowett History? Also, the seats on Standards had no central armrest and, although there is no clear photo of the front seat, the armrest is missing from the rear seat, which hints at her being a Standard model.

I hope this helps?

David

[robert lintott]

For David Morris, I dont have the history book, but have owned three Javelins , starting in 1957 and have retained an interest throughout . The detective work is interesting .I had not realised there may have been a change to the "new" dashboard for standard ,"S" models in 52. There are very few standards inthe register so presumably very few were sold . Yours is clearly a normal production S (20893 S) . The Javelin, 14005, for sale is also an S in the register, but the other 14000 series in the register are "D" , one being an "ED" presumably for Export.
The 14000 cars were registered quite late on , in March 1953 onwards, having been built in 1952, so look as if they were set aside somewhere.

best regards Bob, from not so sunny Somerset!

[David Morris]

Hi Robert,

Thanks for your reply. Yes, I reckon the 14000 series of cars had been stored somewhere. I believe they were a mixture of de luxe and standards. As to the reason why there are few Standards in the UK...well I guess that the majority went overseas? The de luxe wooden dashboards would not stand the heat of the tropics well and leather seats can be very hot in the sun! Jowetts offered Standard Javelins in leatherette or a kind of ribbed cloth, which would have been much more comfortable.

In the UK, I guess the type of people buying Javelins from new would be prepared to pay the extra to get a de luxe? After all, new Javelins were about the same cost as a reasonable house back in the 1950s!

All the best,

David

[Robin Fairservice]

If it is possible to look at the cylinder heads there are casting dates on them. What is th engine number and where would that fit in the date sequences?

[Andy Stevens]

I used to own a '14000' series car - 14028 if my memory serves me correctly. the story behind the out of sequence chassis numbering system is that these cars, 230 I Think, were a batch of 1950 cars destined for export, however they made it to the docks but a dock strike prevented them reaching their destination. They sat on the docks for a period, deteriorating. After a period they were returned to Jowett Cars and were stored.By the time Jowett got around to dealing with them, they had been superceded by later models, so these cars were refurbished as far possible to the latest (1952) spec and finally sold in 1952/3. I think most cars were sold as deluxe models, but most, including mine had some standard features, including standard bumpers and boot lid mounted number plate. Under the wooden dash was a standard dash with a chunk cut out to allow the deluxe dash to be fitted.I think they were also all fitted with Series 3 engines. the chassis numbers were all E2 PD 14XXX ED. - ED being 'export deluxe' There was an article in the Jowetteer years ago about these cars, but I can't lay my hands on it at the moment , Hope this info is of use!
Andy

[Tony Fearn]

Hello Andy et al,

I went to see Bob and Doris Mercer this afternoon. They have been in the Northern section since 1962. Bob's now 89 years old, still driving (not a Jowett as they don't have power steering), and is a whizz about all things Javelin.

He mentioned the same reasoning for 14,000 chassis numbers as you did, having been told of it by one of the Jowett management many years ago.

Tony.

[Chris Spencer]

Just as an aside the Project B car tucked away in the 'Clements' workshop also has the original dash cut to accept the wooden faced dashboard but it is not a 14000 series chassis number.

Nice to see the Javelin in this original post reach it's reserve of £750.00 so it will be on it's way to a new home soon when the auction finishes today - let's hope that it is another new member for the club.

[robert lintott]

The mystery is becoming clearer. It looks as if the 14000 batch were originally E1 PC cars which were updated in 1952 and Jowett then changed the Chassis plates to E2 PD , quite reasonably in view of what was done . Interesting that there was a mixture of Deluxe and Standard fittings. The "E" mentioned by the vendor must be an Export mark, although it might have been an ES ?
I notice that although the members list shows five Javelins in the 14000 series 5,15,80,95 and 125 there are 9 more in the Part 2 list --thought to have survived but not in the club--ranging from 21 to 228. This would support the size of the batch mentioned .
Interesting that in the 2008 listing there are no E1 PC 14000 cars listed, just the E2 PD cars, the sequence has a gap between 13056 and 15085, just a coincidence perhaps ? Is there a list updated since 2008?
Incidentally am I right to assume the Club list includes no cars exported and still overseas, has anyone attempted to get all those details as well?
Lets hope the e Bay car goes to a good home , ie a member of JCC! Bob Lintott

[Andy Stevens]

I have found the Jowetteer article I referred to in my previous posting (September 1974 for those with a library).George Mitchell, registrar at the time, wrote the article.

Some of the salient points in George's article;

Cars are 14001 to 14232
All but a few were released in 1953
The reason why the cars were not exported was unexplained
All were apparently re-engined to Series 3 specs and rubber bushed suspension fitted;
Standard horn push was retained
Number plate stayed on boot lid
standard bumpers retained;
Original chassis numbers ground off and re-stamped. new chassis plate also fitted.
Original chassis number can be found in factory records( I don't know if Eden Lindsay is a Jowett talk member....?)
By 1951 chassis numbering system had become a bit muddled, so whilst a few cars had a 13000 number it was decided to start again at 15000, hence approx 1500 number unused.

My former car was 14128, not 14028 as stated, and still exists, but not by a club member......hmmm now there is a space in my garage.......

Andy

[robert lintott]

This just about brings this correspondence to a close. Lets hope there is some way to encourage the new owner £ 1040 to join the JCC.