Jowett Jupiter 1953

[p.p.]

i E-Bay a 1953 Jupiter for sale!!

nr. 190551201037

peter

will tay the link in the post....

[george garside]

this is SA923 recently sold by auction in Fife ( price I think in last months automobile.) It has sometimes been reported as being owned by Sir Jimmy Shand, the famous Scottish bandleader. In fact it was owned by his son Jimmy Shand Jnr.
It appears in the1999 club registeer as being owned by Jim Munro.

george

[Chris Spencer]

Looking at the sellers feedback it would appear that he is a part time dealer, he paid £6,600 at the auction so with commission it stands him at £7,000 and the cost of transporting it from Fife to Maidstone. No dealer is going to do this for less than a £2,000 return so my guess is that the reserve is in the £9 - £10,000 region (the car is presently at £5,900 still in reserve with 5 days to go) Link is posted below

Drummond attended the auction (purchasing a load of parts on behalf of the Scottish Section) and reported that the car was dissopointing with many parts missing, a non standard radiator and probably a Javelin rear axle under it - someone who knows little better is going to end up paying a high price and getting their hands burnt in the process.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... K:MEWAX:IT

[Leo Bolter]

someone who knows little better is going to end up paying a high price and getting their hands burnt in the process.

Sadly, this must happen all too often.

An example:
This week I was interested in a Oxy-Acetlene welding plant being on line auctioned on NZs TradeMe. It was described as "not being used for years and might need testing" and shown in the photo as consisting of a trolly, gas bottles, regulators, torch and tips. The problem is that I know for a fact that the bottles were of a condemned type and would not even be able to be tested let alone refilled. They even had a stick on label showing the type was "DX" that was showing in the picture! I know this, but how does one warn the vendor they are selling gear that is "not fit for purpose" (presuming he/she doesn't know!) and the also bidders . . . . Yeah I know . . . Caveat emptor, but . . . it doesn't seem right to have the knowledge of such things and not give even subtle warning. All I felt I could do was to ask the question "Do I see a label with "DX" on it on the bottles". He/she replied "Sure do" . .

The bid was reasonable at $NZ82.00 a couple of days out from final closing, so I kept an eye on it. I was actually interested, and have been for some time, in getting my hands on a "dead" Oxygen cylinder for use in another project (that's another story!) and would have paid somewhat more that that to get the bit I wanted, dump the Acetylene cylinder and on-sell the rest.

But as usual the auction went mad towards the end . . . and someone paid what was to me a ridiculous price of $186.00!

Leo.

[Chris Spencer]

Well it has reached reserve at £7,000 my guess it that it will end up at closer to £10,000 before the auction closes - there appears that they are several bidders interested in the vendor ending the auction early - it still has 4 days to go.

[Drummond Black]

I asked the seller a question two days ago. I said " the bumpers are definitely not Jupiter. Do you still have the originals ?? I know this after examining the car at Glamis.
I got a cold reply saying " why would anybody go to the bother of changing the bumpers?

I know they were sold on by a previous owner. I helped dismantle this Jupiter in the early eighties for a rebuild but it was sold on at an early stage.

As Chris has already stated, some poor person is going to spend a fortune on a pile of .... .
In my opinion the car is worth no more than 5K


Drummond

[Chris Spencer]

Sold for £8611.00 - slightly less than I thought it would go for being a sillybay sale, but a lot more than it's real value - the dealer has made little from the sale by the time he has paid all of his expenses but will have made something out of it. Lets just hope the new owner want's to get the car back to it's former glory and more to the point joins the club.

[Jack]

This sale came up in discussion over the weekend, and I still feel that the price isn't unreasonable, even allowing for missing parts.

A restoration from its current condition would definitely be a lot of work, and require a number of hard to find parts to be found, but the price for a Jupiter in need of restoration seems to be around this figure - at least this car should be quick to put on the road so can be used while work is undertaken.

Fundamentally there's a lot of people out there who'd like to own a Jupiter but can't afford £20K to buy one in good condition. This wouldn't be the worst starting point for someone in that position.

Jack.

[k. rogers]

I agree with you Jack and at least there is still quite a good margin of 10 - 15 grand in which to do the work! For those who enjoy the restoration side of things this sort of ratio of cost as a resto and finished car is about right. Good luck to the new owner and I am sure he will get help with sourcing the required parts once he is a member!!

[Chris Spencer]

To some degree I am going to disagree with the last two posts - The car has been stored for a good period of time and therefore will have all manner of gremlins lurking - it is going to need a MOT test to get it on the road and if someone has gone to the extent of bodging the wrong rear axle under it - sticking any radiator that they can find to fit it under the bonnet - making any non original part fit it that's missing and forgetting about anything else that they are not bothered about - suggests that the car has not got an ounce of credible service history. Therefore being both stored and neglected - there is no way are you going to get this roadworthy by chucking a couple of hundred quid and weekends work at it. So by the time you have rebuilt the brakes, undertook all the Mot test requirements - replaced the perished tyres, do you think that the exhaust will be sound and the fuel system free of leaks ?? - I bet not !! - We have not even touched on the subject of a sticking / slipping clutch, a engine that overheats and a gearbox full of metal scrap and sawdust - so anyway two thousand pounds later if you are lucky and a lot of your time - or several thousands pounds later if you have the work carried out professionally - you will have a Jupiter on the road.

Now are you happy with it ?? Of course not you want it shiny and gleaming, without rips in the seats and flapping bits of cloth for the hood - Ho and what's that a sixty year old wiring harness - well now that's not likely to catch fire when you have expended all your hard earned money and time on the rest of the car - is it !!

Don't get me wrong - if want to enjoy restoring a Jupiter - paint it the colour of your own choice, trim the interior just how you had always dreamt of - add your own touches - spend the next few years building a fantastic car and like to be challenged - this is the car for you - It will be hard work and cost you far more money that you can imagine - in fact more than what it would cost to go buy one that has already been done !!!

This is no cheap level entry into Jupiter ownership - The above is written based on pure fact - I have been connected with classic car restoration trade in one way or another for 30 years now and there is a golden rule - unless you actually want a restoration project - always buy at the top of the market - never buy at the bottom or even in the middle - it is pure false economy.

[Forumadmin]

Looking at prices in terms relative to the last few decades brings some justification to the market. Let us say I bought a similar car in 1980, what might I have paid? Probably £1200. 30 years on that same £1200 is worth about £8000 if you look at things like house prices and average salaries. I also think that Jupiters have risen in value relative to other classic cars.

If I had paid £1200 for a Jupiter in 1980 how much would it have cost to restore professionally? Probably relatively a lot less; but also I think standards then were lower when restoring cars and parts were also relatively cheaper.

I used the word 'relatively' a number of times because it is important to consider that then people bought Jupiters to drive, not just to have as a second or third car, they accepted a running car rather than a status symbol or investment opportunity. So relatively the money they spent was what they would spend on the depreciation of a new car that in today's prices is about £4000 per year. Thus if they spent two years improving the car they might spend £8000 rather than buy a new car.

If you put that £4000 per year into a Javelin or Jupiter and did 20000 miles in them you would get a good motor! Ok not with bluetooth and electric opening boot; but something that was comfortable and eye turning.

[k. rogers]

Going back to Chris's post: people buy cars like this all the time - you see write ups in the classic mags - and true, they end up paying twice as much as the car is worth, but to some people this is irrelevant, the restoration is the challenge. While I agree with you wholeheartedly, I wouldn't personally go down this road (I would rather someone else has the heartache and buy it when they've had enough!) but if everyone took this attitude nothing would be restored in the first place and why on this occasion shouldn't it be a Jowett, as it happens to plenty of other makes?

[Forumadmin]

The owner who lives in Balmoral has joined the club and I guess will be conversing on JowettTalk soon. Meanwhile he is looking for someone to look at the car to see what needs doing to prepare the car for MOT (and possibly also advise on what else needs attention to make it a useable car). The car is currently in Kent. Do we know of anybody?

Then he will need someone to do the work, so can anyone suggest anybody?

[Chris Spencer]

My man in Surrey (Guildford) who looks after the Rover for MOT and other odds maybe a good choice - I can have a word with him to sound him out - although he is a long way from the new owners abode - otherwise get it back up country to Scotland and I am sure that Drummond and team must have a few contacts in that neck of the woods. I can help with paint and bodywork if you want to join the waiting list Ben - next available slot is in about five years time !

[Ben]

Hi folks. I am that lucky buyer being mentioned. Since I didn't go to the auction at Glamis, buying the car from the comfort of my chair: yes the dealer has made nearly £2000 already.

It doesn't matter too much about it having bits missing and wrong. A full restoration is on the cards for any car that has sat in a barn for years, but for this year, I just want to get it on the road. I don't mind driving a scruffy-looking car while getting to know it. That is better than owning it yet never driving it.

FJR 759 has spent long enough inside. Problem now is: it has to come all the way back to Aberdeenshire. If someone could help me out with an assessment, then at least potential restorers (probably around Bradford) will know what has to be done. I don't mind paying someone for an assessment.

It sounds as though the previous owner (Freddie Cunningham) was a bit stubborn while doing things badly, so the car comes with a legacy of being the Jupiter that isn't right. Anyone who has ever owned a car that sat in storage for a decade will concur that the right thing to do is to use it for a while, then undertake restoration.

All help will be received with much gratitude. Many thanks to Drummond, Chris and Keith already.

Ben