Javelin swivel pin excess play

paul wilks · Post by **paul wilks** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 9:37 am

Thanks everyone.

I feel suitably chastened and guess that I will have to "bite the bullet" and do the job properly, after all the car has been off the road for the last thirty years so what's another few months whilst I get the job done properly?

I have therefore ordered the stub axle bushes for the earlier suspension (part 50275).

1. Are there any wheezes re removing the old ones?
2. What about fitting the replacements?
3. Will they 'simply'(?) fit or is there anything else I will have to do?

Thanks for your ongoing and inexhaustable (I hope) patience and support.

Paul

Keith Andrews · Post by **Keith Andrews** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 8:23 pm

I feel suitably chastened

My post was not pointed at yourself but is a general observation.

2 Get the swivel pin metal sprayed and machined back to standard size.

Caution here: there are several typesa of metal spraying and many tyes of spray...
DO NOT have it sprayed in the traditional way with the acetylene torch...any excess heating o suspenstion parts causes weakening of the metal structure in those parts.
The is a "wire"spraying process, that doesnt heat the parts any higher than 100deg C use that, or electrosis (chroming) then the part are ground to the size of the bush...even if over size a few thou.

3 Get the s/pin machined down if the wear is not to bad and fit oversize bushes.

Little less cauation here, this reduces the strength of the part slightly and increases the pressures between the surfaces, resualting in faster wear. The other disadvantage of this is that next time it needs servive, it cant be reduced in size again without serious weakening, and to build up becomes rather more expensive ..

Wire metal spraying or hard chroming/grinding to over size size are the best opitions if going the rebuild route.
Going to a machine shop that out works the spraying/chroming is expensive...shop around usually best to go direct to the shop that does the building.

I am not keen with the adjustable reamer type that some use.

Why?
With this bushes can be sized exactly to match the shafts after rebuild.. taking into account any oversize.

paul wilks · Post by **paul wilks** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 8:52 pm

Oh dear! So much for this being a straight forward job and nothing to be too frightened of! I think I'll take off the stub axle and swivel pin and send it to someone in the JCC who knows exactly what they are doing- we have no engineers in Runcorn capable of such work.

I am working on the bottom pin at the moment and having to soak it in Plus Gas since that blessed nut will NOT budge. I assume that having taken it off I will have to clout the pin to remove it? And thus I will probably have to replace the nut and pin as well as the distance tube and bushes.

By the way, is there something 'strange' about that bottom spring arm pin? Both mine appear to have heads which are sort of tapered or wedged shaped. Is this correct?

Another thought, since both stub axle and swivel pin have to be removed to do the job properly, why isn't the whole unit (stub axle and swivel pin) simply removed as one whole? The swivel pin and stub axle could then be separated 'on the bench'. It seems strange (to me, anyway!) to have to lift the stub axle from the swivel pin (still fixed to the car) and then remove the swivel pin from the car.

Just a thought. There might of course be a simple explanation!

All the best

Paul

Bryan Walker · Post by **Bryan Walker** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 5:34 am

Hi Paul,
The lower spring arm does have a taper to it so that when the steering is at full lock the lower back bolt that holds the brake plate on does not hit it.
so when reassembling take note to get the taper to the front.

Post by **Forumadmin** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 9:47 am

I am working on the bottom pin at the moment and having to soak it in Plus Gas since that blessed nut will NOT budge. I assume that having taken it off I will have to clout the pin to remove it? And thus I will probably have to replace the nut and pin as well as the distance tube and bushes.

Check there is no split pin (or remains of) locking the nut!
Loosen the nut one turn only, then protect the nut with brass or ally plate and wollop with a seven pound hammer. This may not be the way you would do it if you have a press though. It may be possible to use a G clamp to provide the axial force and then tap the pin on the side. We have all struggled with stubborn fitments on old cars and learn where and how hard to hit them to coerce them into submission. Heat is the best, if you can apply without destroying anything rubber. if all else fails then hack saw, nut splitter or grinder are the last resort.

THRUST WASHERS.
See http://jowett.org/jowettnet/dt/tech/jti/jav.pdf page 106/107 (printed) or 109/110 of pdf. I use shims instead of different size washers.

paul wilks · Post by **paul wilks** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:32 pm

Thanks everyone so far and thanks Bryan. The pin on the other side (offside) wasn't right and I have now loosened the nut, turned the pin round so the taper is to the front as suggested and retightened the nut. So hopefully the offside is at least now okay. I confess I'd NEVER have thought of that!

TedAllen · Post by **TedAllen** » Fri Sep 29, 2006 9:53 pm

Hi Paul.

Speaking as a Ministry vehicle inspector ( retired )< I would not be too concerned about a little up and down play in the king pin. Most MOT inspectors will make allowances for older vehicles. My own was 1 inch for every year of manufacture. ( not really! ) I have rarely come across an inspector who will jack up the car and use a pinch bar to see if there is any lift in the assembly. Pats advice about counting the threads was spot on but in my workshop I always have a bottle......not Scotch ....but Tippex.
Slacken off the locknut and paint the thread up against the track rod end white. This excellent fluid is great for marking timing marks and the backs of shell bearings to keep them matching apart from many other uses...oh, one I forgot is that I mark the end of the wheel studs on my Renault Fourgonette enabling me to feed the wheel on to the hub by seeing the studs through the holes.....I don't know why but I always struggle with three stud wheels !
All the best
Ted

paul wilks · Post by **paul wilks** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 9:51 am

Thanks everyone. Ted- you're just down the road from me! I have at last removed the stub axle and swivel pin as ONE complete unit. Having soaked every nut and bolt in Plus Gas my worst nightmares were NOT realised and everything came off a treat- I did NOT have to clout anything! I removed the nuts from the top and bottom pins and simply unscrewed both pins! Wonderful.
I could not have done this without your advice and support so many thanks.
Bill Lock has agreed to dismantle the whole unit and replace whatever bushes etc need replacing. All that talk about what you have to do re replacing bushes etc made me realise that perhaps it wasn't such a simple and straight forward job after all!
When I get the unit back and have successfully fitted it I'll be able to concentrate on the brakes, which actually is where I started on this forum!

All the best and thanks again

Paul

TedAllen · Post by **TedAllen** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 2:32 pm

Hi Pat

Glad you liked the tippex hint. If you're that bad I expect you could have it delivered by tanker direct to your home.

Don't drink it though.........it makes your mind go blank ! Also be careful with Viagra...the only time I tried it the tablet stuck in my throat and I ended up with a stiff neck !

Ted

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