Recommissioning 1929 long two

[BarryCambs]

Hi Tony

Thanks once again for all the information and useful tips! I like the idea of the copper tube a lot, so I'll get this done.

Thanks, Barry

[BarryCambs]

The car is now very much going back together. New rear axle oil seals are in and the brakes overhauled. WIngs are all welded and painted ready to go on and running boards repaired. New exhaust system is here ready to fit up. So far, the only real frustration had been getting rad hoses to fit! I have finally sourced a "classic wrap" style top hose (which spares seem to have in every size apart from the one I need) , but just when I was exctied to try filling the rad, I found I have 2 short hoses for the bottom, instead of one long and one short, so hopefully Jowett Spares can swap one on Monday.

I thought I should take some photos of my new wiring loom, of which I am very proud. I've used braded cable and fabric loom tape, but you will notice the addition of a change over relay (hidden under the dash). This is activated by earthing it via the single wire to the dip switch on the steering wheel (I removed a foot operated one) and swaps from low to high beam on the O/S head lamp. The only other addition is a feed and earth to the bottom of the rad, to future proof in case I need a cooling fan.

I have had some anxeity from the start about actually being able to drive the car, as I was struggling to get my feet on the pedals and finding my knees jammed under the wheel, and against the door. The 1929 brochure specifically says "comfortable for even a 6 ft driver", so it seemed a bit odd. I had already noticed the clutch and brake pedals were adjused out as far as they would go and putting these back greatly improved the situation. I then found the steering column can be adjusted up on slots, which were hidden behind some large washers and this improved the situation further, but not enough to make me feel I could actually drive it confidently in traffic. However, I think I have now solved the mystery!

The seats have been re-upholstered at some stage and when I removed the front one, I realised the seat back is now around 6" thick. I think the seat is way too thick and the problem is compunded by the odd curved shape which, coupled with the fact the base slopes forwards, has the effect of pushing you off the seat. Sitting in the car without the back in, gives a good driving position! The dicky seat has a massive lump in the middle of it and the whole job is pretty poor, so eventually, I will re-upholster the whole lot. In the short term, we'll just try removing the bulk of the stuffing and reprofile to a flat design.

I need to get to a meeting to have a look at some other cars, but I am assuming this would have only had around an inch of padding on the back??

[BarryCambs]

While cleaning off the old manifold gasket before refitting the carb, I found the pictured copper spacer which has what looks like a restrictor/diffuser in the centre. Sorry for the quality of the photos, but can anyone tell me if this is standard and should be there and what is its purpouse??

Thanks, Barry

[george garside]

definitely not original . It is one of the many economy devices available in the 50's & 60's. possibly a cox atomiser. All claimed improved economy and other claims included smoother running, increased power etc etc. some worked better than others and some did n't make much difference ! I used one called the mangoletsi manifold modifier on a javelin ( one per carb) and it did seem to improve both economy and smoothness . It designed by the well known tuning firm George Mangoletsi of Knutfford ( now alpha romeo agents.. George Mangoletsi at one time rallied a javelin and I got him to give a talk to the Northern Section in the early 60's.

george

[BarryCambs]

Thanks George for such a definitive answer! I did wonder if it was some sort of modification from that era. I won't refit it at the moment, as I don't want any complications setting things up.

Interestingly, the first hit on Google turns up this:

http://mangoletsimanifolds.com/images/p ... omizer.pdf

I'm hoping Jowett Spares can sort the last remaining radiator hose this evening, then I am hopefully ready to try starting it. The last time it was driven was in 1974 was from Kent to Newmarket, so I have been assuming all is well with the engine. The only slight anxiety I have is that I found a letter in all the paperwork dated 1975 from a spares supplier apologising for not being able to supply +50 thou pistons.

[Keith Clements]

I am a little sceptical if fitted to a Javelin as such a restrictor and hence 're-atomiser ' is already part of the throat of the Zenith. Nevertheless this is perhaps another part that needs to be redesigned for modern petrol and its different vapourisation characteristics. This should be done in conjunction with analysis of the 'swirl' in the combustion chamber and the precision of the inlet port chamfers.

[george garside]

The gadget is not the cox ''atmos'' as I thought but is definately a Vokes distribution rectifier. This was patented in 1932 so may have been on the car for quite some time.

Vokes claimed it was suitable for both aircraft and automobiles! and that it provided more power and faster acceleration ''due to the torque being rendered even''. They also claimed a reduction in fuel consumption of between 17 and 30%-------all this for a mere five bob!

george

[Forumadmin]

In 1932 engine technology was such that many engines could have been improved considerably by such devices. You only have to look at the increase in power from the same displacement that occurs every decade. It is almost the same as Moore's law for semicobductor chips.

[BarryCambs]

You are right, that's exactly what it is:

http://archive.commercialmotor.com/arti ... es-for-ins

http://fultonhistory.com/Newspaper4/Bin ... 203281.pdf

It had obviously been in there for some time. I haven't refitted it, but once the car is all running and sorted, it would be interesting to try it and see if there is any discernible difference. It does look quite restrictive to me, but I guess whoever fitted it wouldn't have left it in if they weren't happy.

I spoke to Jowett Spares and I think the problem of hoses is sorted. In essence, the hoses are right, the car is wrong! The bottom hoses are supplied to fit the longer run to the offside cylinder and one needs to be cut shorter for the nearside. However, on mine, the longer hose fits the nearside and the offside is 2" short. I guess either the later 1934 engine is further back in the chassis, or the radiator is different in some way? Luckily, I found a classic car hose supplier for the top hose, so I can go back to them, as they just cut old style "wrapped" hose to length.

[BarryCambs]

Testing the fuel tap doesn't leak seemed to be one of the last remaining things to do before trying to start the car. It doesn't leak. Sadly, where it screws to the tank does, due to someone feeling the need to smear alraldite over a crack in the solder or brazing holding the threaded section to the tank. I do however remain confident that if I work on the car for long enough, I will eventually find at least one component that hasn't been bodged at some stage in its life!

[ian Howell]

Barry: -

Don't hold out too much hope!

Among 'minor' repairs I have had to do were the ammeter (spindle out of its bearings), the switch panel (broken brass link in internal connections), brake linings (shims in between the linings and the shoes to bring the lining 'proud' of the worn rivets), dynamo 'third brush' carrier securing screw (one lost during some previous bodgery), carburettor slow running screw locking nut (old one graunched circular instead of hexagonal), replacement sleeve on the carburettor float spindle (old one worn through). and so it went on.

All these of course are minor compared to the rebuilding of the bodywork, doors, wings and windscreen, ignition coil and condenser (yes - both rebuilt!), quite apart from sourcing or making 'advance/retard' link, a full new set of wheel nuts, a wiper motor, an interior mirror, a 'Jowett' script for the radiator (thanks again Tony), a sidelight reflector, prop shaft centering devices, steering column and so on . . .

The end is not yet in sight, but I think I have reached the end of the beginning.

I hope.

[BarryCambs]

Well Ian, I have found that while one of the handbrake bands has had it's return spring replaced with a couple of bits of Mechano, the handrake lever mechanisim is as it left the factory and works beautifully, so there is hope.

When I got the tank out, I found the bottom had rubbed through in places where it had touched the bulkhead and been repaired with Araldite too. It's gone to our smal local radiators repair workshop for plating. Unfortunately, the radiator is there too! Having sorted out longer hoses, I filled it with water ready to try starting it and the rad leaked in 3 places. When I took it out, 2 of the brackets were floating as they had been Araldited too.

I am waiting for a proper quote, but they reckon about £400 - £500 to recore it with a proper vintage core which came as a bit of a shock. They also said the lead time will be about Christmas which is a shame, as it is ready to try apart from that. I rang Jowett Spares who said around £800 using their local chap!

[ian Howell]

Barry: -

Just for fun - when I first got my Long Four sort of ready to start I also was short of a serviceable radiator. What I did was simply filled the engine waterways with water having plugged the water inlets to the two cylinders. Then I could run the engine for a short time, enough to 'prove' the ignition system, head gaskets and oil pressure before the water got too hot.

I suppose that if you could solder a couple of pipes onto an old oil drum or similar, you could use a 'hopper' type cooling system for longer runs - NOT ON THE ROAD! - like some stationery engines do.

[James Baxter]

The club radiator man is fantastic. I went to him directly for my radiator doing.
The tubes are steel and basically will need replacing. Its a huge task, but i think you will be most impressed with the club service. Mine cost £800 going direct so they are not adding a premium.

I am sure the car is worth it. Dig deep.

[BarryCambs]

Hi James

The radiator is on its way to CPA Radiators in Grantham. Came recommended and very helpful chap. I think he'll be about the same price as our local place, who I have used for years for more modern stuff, but also have a good reputation for vintage. While I don't doubt they, or the club chap will do a great job, neither of them are seemingly able to do it for months and while I don't expect specialist work to be done the next day, I find it a bit frustrating as this is the last thing I need in order to get it on the road. I suspect business is booming if they are able to turn work away!