Jowett Jupiter 1953

[Ben]

Thanks Jack & Chris!
what do you think should be done about the cracked block: just shop-around for a replacement? Drummond has suggested a re-con engine. That sounds good. You know: trade-in the one with a big fault (even though there may be good stuff there) in return for a rebuilt unit.
Mind you, who is doing this today?
Is there another engine we could stick in there while awaiting a re-build of the original? Maybe some daft modern thing.
rather like stuffing a synthesiser in Jimmy Shand's band.
ben

[Peter Holden]

Ben
Let’s look at your problems individually.
1. The cracked block. How badly is it and exactly where is it cracked? If the rest of the engine is generally OK and you have oil pressure it might be worth getting it welded insitu. A lot of javelin engines used to crack on the bottom and that was generally caused by corrosion making the metal very thin and then the slightest frost, problem. In fact it is not uncommon to have engines seeping water from the bottom for the same corrosion reason. If it is possible to weld with perhaps with a patch gets you on the road then that would get you going. The alternative is to purchase from the club a pair of brand new, remanufactured crankcases. They are not cheap. And then rebuild the engine. If you go this route then I would suggest lash out and go the whole hog as Keith has already suggested. To get a good usable and reliable engine as opposed to a racing engine you could cut a few corners. Alternatively you could borrow and engine, if one is available, or buy one to get you on the road. Putting in an alternative engine will give you registration, MOT and insurance problems.
2. The club is seeking orders of remanufacture of rack and pinions. They will need to order about 10 to get a competitive price so if they can get at least 50% confirmed then that will solve your problem.
3. Rear brake drums seized well that is just a bugger to get them off. The correct puller (there are two types – you want the later type) a lump hammer and a brake adjusting spanner and they will eventually come off. Just take your time and don’t go at it madly.
4. What do you want a hood for? Just keep it down! OK because it is raining. It will not stop you using the car so you can sort that out later.
5. Yes you need to get the wiring sorted. Dodgy wiring can result in fires! But how dodgy is it? New looms are available. They are not too difficult to install and lay out neatly. The bigger problem is all the preparation work, cleaning all the original fittings and making sure they work, painting behind the loom etc.

At the end of the day it is your car and you have to define the budget to get what you desire. The car does not have to be mint like Amys to enjoy it. (that car took about 30 years to get back on the road and it was completely stripped) As your car is all together I would not advise stripping it but do a rolling restoration.

[Jack]

Thanks Jack & Chris!
what do you think should be done about the cracked block: just shop-around for a replacement? Drummond has suggested a re-con engine. That sounds good. You know: trade-in the one with a big fault (even though there may be good stuff there) in return for a rebuilt unit.
Mind you, who is doing this today?
Is there another engine we could stick in there while awaiting a re-build of the original? Maybe some daft modern thing.
rather like stuffing a synthesiser in Jimmy Shand's band.
ben

The general view seems to be that no, there is no easy source of a reconditioned or trade-in engine. This has been discussed recently, where other members were in a similar position and looking for a good engine rebuilder.

Sticking a more modern engine in there is entirely possible, however the wiring required would be significant, and the work to modify engine mountings and other dimensions, radiator mounts etc would probably be as much work and cost as rebuilding your own engine with replacement parts.

Sticking a Jowett engine in there may be possible while you rebuild - worth a call to the spares section, Bill Lock and keeping an eye on ebay and other auctions to see if there is another engine available anywhere. It may be that the cheapest way to do this is to find a Javelin in good running order but with significant rust or other problems and take the engine from it - as Peter points out above there may be insurance implications but swapping for another engine with different number should be no problem and is not a big job on the Jupiter and Javelin - it is not particularly heavy, and easily removed and replaced.

Alternatively you can remove your engine and send it to us to add to the 4 engines we've got to rebuild over the winter. I can see my new garage becoming the Jowett engine rebuild centre at current rate, still at least it will be empty when we move in. I make no commitment on when it will be done, or how much it will cost, but at the moment nobody else seems to have the skills or inclination to rebuild Jowett engines at a sensible price.

Jack.

[AlanBartlett]

Thinking on a modern engine if thats your route did someone not put in a subaru engine in a javelin up at scotland? I have no idea on javelins, so not sure on how much modification was/would be needed?

Secondly there has been a javelin engine on ebay for the past couple of months not sure on how good it is for about 450 starting bid, if thats any help to anyone?

[Amy]

4. What do you want a hood for? Just keep it down! OK because it is raining. It will not stop you using the car so you can sort that out later.

That's a good question - and any Jupiter owner will tell you that they leak even without any rips in them!

[Peter Holden]

With regards to my earlier posting. When I said:
'Putting in an alternative engine will give you registration, MOT and insurance problems.' I was referring to a modern replacement engine. Putting another Jupiter/Javelin engine should be no problem

[Ben]

Thank you Peter, Jack, Alan & Amy.
Peter: let's see how bad the steering rack is. I'm happy to add another to the re-manufacture budget if that's the case.
Jack: please keep the option open for this engine to be your fifth winter rebuild. There may well be no earlier alternative.
Alan: searching through every damn key-ring and postcard on e-bay, I wish I could find that engine. Is it still there?
Amy: dinnae call me a poof. Up here the hood is jus tae keep the eagles fae pinching oor toupees.

[Chris Spencer]

Ben - Hopefully you are now finding the disadvantage and advantages of Jowett owning - on the down side they are not always straight forward, the parts can be elusive, most of the jobs are far from a quick fix and at times they can be quite frankly frustrating to the point that I have seen owners contemplate selling the dam thing (only for 30 seconds) they soon change their minds ! - Jowetts also cost money but name me a car that that you can restore or own for nothing and to be honest in real scheme of things - what I see (financially) owners of other makes and models throw at their cars it's a drop in the ocean !

On the up side you have very supportive and very helpful members who are ambitious to see yet another Jowett put back on to road - and I can see that you have a sense of humour - you going fit just right in with us ! - What's the big picture Ben ? - get it up and running and on the road ? - worry about the cosmetics / bodywork later ?

[AlanBartlett]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Complete-Jowe ... 0531133368

Bidding had ended for the item, but it didnt sell. try contacting the seller and see what he says.

[Amy]

Amy: dinnae call me a poof. Up here the hood is jus tae keep the eagles fae pinching oor toupees.

[Tony Fearn]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Complete-Jowe ... 0531133368

Bidding had ended for the item, but it didnt sell. try contacting the seller and see what he says.

Ben, perhaps you should discuss with one or other of the Jav/Jup engine experts on here before parting with money for this engine. They'll be able to suggest what questions to ask of the vendor. It doesn't look pristine from the photo.

Tony.

[Ben]

Ben - Hopefully you are now finding the disadvantage and advantages of Jowett owning - on the down side they are not always straight forward, the parts can be elusive, most of the jobs are far from a quick fix and at times they can be quite frankly frustrating to the point that I have seen owners contemplate selling the dam thing (only for 30 seconds) they soon change their minds ! - Jowetts also cost money but name me a car that that you can restore or own for nothing and to be honest in real scheme of things - what I see (financially) owners of other makes and models throw at their cars it's a drop in the ocean !

On the up side you have very supportive and very helpful members who are ambitious to see yet another Jowett put back on to road - and I can see that you have a sense of humour - you going fit just right in with us ! - What's the big picture Ben ? - get it up and running and on the road ? - worry about the cosmetics / bodywork later ?

You're spot-on there Chris! The paintwork is shabby, the interior is tatty and the bumpers are from another car, but it's a Jupiter. They are able to carry off all sorts of superficial imperfections. In my earliest memories of the fairground the merry-go-rounds were full of Austin J40s while the bumper cars looked like Jupiters. Perhaps it's this early desire to jump into one and bump into other moving vehicles that drives me.

It seems that I should have paid less for the car. Now it's a shame that the engine has a cracked block. Guess that means that an engine rebuild is necessary before it will be seen on the road. We need a bit more detail from Shaun Bateman about the cracked block. Maybe it can be welded. If so, that could be the first bit of luck.

The club is the best I've ever seen, and I've been in a few. It rather reassures me that the car won't just grind to a halt and end-up in a barn. Somehow or another this one will be on the road again.

Actually, large rubber bumpers all-round might do as replacements...

[Chris Spencer]

Ben - We live and learn and finding a engine block that is cracked is just one them things and not particularly the end of the world, I have a fair bit of work in front of me but any help or advice on the bodywork side of things - just ask !!

[Forumadmin]

In 1968 Araldite did the trick for years on my newly acqured Jup.
I have had two or three blocks welded successfully. Usually need to line bore afterwards. Make sure the welder knows what he is doing! If it is just the water jacket that is cracked then that should be much easier to repair.

Please take photo with some crack testing fluid to show location.

[Leo Bolter]

Hi folks.

Just as a matter of interest, here's a example image of crack testing that I did with one of my crankcases back in about 2005 . . . . the crack from the coolant port is pretty obvious as a pale blue line heading for the black dot. The second runs from the dark patch at the upper right image edge to the other black dot, then continues at approximately right angles to the main crack.The "blobs", mainly a centre top are probably just patches of mild corrosion that weren't entirely cleaned off and which absorbed a certain amount of the fluorescent fluid (like the cracks did!)

This may not be of any relevance to the cracks in Ben's crankcases, but it does serve as a good example of the effectiveness of using fluorescent dye/UV for crack location.


UV CRACK TESTING

There's another commercial technique for crack testing Iron and steel called Magnaflux, but I described a DIY (do it yourself) method which utilises a sandblast, Kerosene (Paraffin oil in UK?) and a bit of very mild heat and cold water. This is already in the forum somewhere . . . I'll give the new search engine a tryout to locate the URL and edit this post soon with that address.

Cheers.
Leo.