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Your interest in the forum: 1953 deluxe Javelin (NVM285) owned by father 1959-67 1949 standard Javelin (FBD327) owned in 1980s as daily transport 1952 deluxe Javelin (HJU592) owned since 1967 aka 'Yellow Peril'
I am in the process of fitting the new rear brake shoes. There are four small holes in each shoe. Working on the nearside rear, if I number each hole on the top (trailing) shoe from the adjuster to the wheel cylinder 1,2,3 and 4 and on the bottom (leading) I number from the adjuster to the wheel cylinder 5, 6, 7 and 8, how do I fit the springs?
I have fitted them thus: green spring (nearest adjuster) hole 1 (top) to hole 6 (bottom) and yellow spring (nearest the wheel cylinder) hole 3 (top) to hole 8 (bottom). Both springs are 'at an angle' (as Mike said they would be) and they do appear parallel to each other but I wonder if I am correct since the hole 1 does appear to be quite close to the adjuster. I wouldn't like to be proved wrong after I have fitted the rear hub!
Sorry about this but I would be very grateful for any advice (again).
But this is text sent by Mike Allfrey to answer this specific issue. Click on link to view picture.
In this general assembly layout, the right hand side (off-side) assembly is shown. In this assembly, the two brake shoes can slide in the brake adjuster tappet (links), they can also slide in the wheel cylinder locating slots. In addition to this floating movement, the brake wheel cylinder is free to slide, in a controlled manner, in the back plate. This al-lows the brake shoes to centralize themselves automatically when the brakes are applied when the motor car is mov-ing in both directions. TOPIC
To identify the brake shoe return springs – the YELLOW spring is fitted adjacent to the rear wheel cylinder; the GREEN spring is fitted adjacent to the brake adjuster.
The same comments as for the front brake wheel cylinders apply to the rear brake components. The cylinder bore in the rear wheel cylinder bore is a parallel bore right through the cylinder body. There is a spring between the air ex-cluders, seals and pistons. After assembling the wheel cylinder it is a good idea to use a strong elastic band to hold the brake pistons in the home position against the spring. This will make the assembly of the brake easier.
The rear brake wheel cylinder should be assembled with a smear of Castrol PH Zinc Oxide grease at the face that contacts the back plate surface. The dust cover plate should also have a smear of the same grease. The securing nuts should be firmly tightened and then backed off until the wheel cylinder assembly can slide with a firm push.
Your interest in the forum: 1953 deluxe Javelin (NVM285) owned by father 1959-67 1949 standard Javelin (FBD327) owned in 1980s as daily transport 1952 deluxe Javelin (HJU592) owned since 1967 aka 'Yellow Peril'
Thanks folks. Oh, hell! I hadn't realised there was a left and right tappet for the adjusters
I checked them both before fitting and they seemed identical and don't tend to fit as the diagram suggests ie either side of the 'coned' end of the adjuster. If they did then the 'cut outs' wouldn't coincide with the actual ends of the shoes ie the 'cut outs' would be parallel to the axle rather than at 90degrees to the axle. I have checked whether the adjusters work on each shoe giving that click at each turn and confirm that they do.
Your interest in the forum: 1953 deluxe Javelin (NVM285) owned by father 1959-67 1949 standard Javelin (FBD327) owned in 1980s as daily transport 1952 deluxe Javelin (HJU592) owned since 1967 aka 'Yellow Peril'
None of this adjuster thing makes sense to me!
Is anyone coming to NJD at the end of the month who could perhaps bring along an aduster to show me how it should go together please?
You'll easily recognise me. I am one of the marshalls in the car park at the hotel on Friday and along the route on Saturday- the one with a sort of haunted look- all because of these blessed Javelin brakes. They're driving me MAD!
Your interest in the forum: 1953 deluxe Javelin (NVM285) owned by father 1959-67 1949 standard Javelin (FBD327) owned in 1980s as daily transport 1952 deluxe Javelin (HJU592) owned since 1967 aka 'Yellow Peril'
I have re-examined the adjuster tappets and of course there IS a difference- BUT you all knew that anyway! The 'cut outs' are such that they are 'at an angle' whereby the depth of the slot on one side of the tappet is different to the depth of the slot on the other side. Now just to work out which slot goes where but at least I think I can sort that now.
SORRY to be a pain. But I'll probably be still wearing that haunted look at NJD!
The tappets are most definitely "handed". I think the easiest way of finding out if they are incorrectly assembled, is to discover that the brake drum will not fit over the brake shoes!
Take careful note that the adjuster cone is screwed fully into the adjuster housing. When I say this, I mean that the cone is screwed fully in from the large hole side. The thread should have a smear of Castrol PH Zinc Oxide grease applied to prevent your salt getting in and acting as nature's welding system. When it is screwed fully home, with the entire square spanner head and some threads protruding, selectively assemble the tappets into the housing. Selectively, because they should be assembled so that the ramp on the tappet that contacts the adjuster cone, must be a flat fit against one of the flats on the cone, with the brake shoe slot correctly positioned to align with the brake shoe heel.
This is important!
The flat on the adjuster cone MUST bear evenly on the ramp of the tappet wuth the shoe heel slot correctly aligned. If the tappet is held in place with thumb pressure against the cone fl;at. and the brake shoe heel slot requires twisting to align - it is incorrectly assembled. The cone may require rotating a small amount to align a flat ccentrally with the tappet bore in the adjuster housing.
With the brake adjuster cone screwed fully home in the adjuster housing, the tappets should be installed so that the distance between their brake shoe ends is minimal.
Don't forget to apply a smear of Castrol PH Zinc Oxide grease to the tappets and cone faces so that the tappets can slide freely and the brakes can be adjusted smoothly with ease. Wipe away excess grease after assembly.
USEFUL TIP - Use a square key or socket to make the brake adjustment, not an open-ended spanner. Suitable eight-point sockets can be obtained that will fit perfectly over the adjuster head. The size that fits the adjuster head usually has a 1/4" square drive.
Eight point? Well to explain, a normal socket, if viewed from the end that fits over the nut or bolt, has twelve 'points' that literally form two hexagons. These are commonly known as bi-hexagon sockets, There are also single-hexagon sockets and when viewed from the same end, one hexagon can be seen. An eight-point socket, when viewed from the nut or bolt end, forms two squares. These sockets are extremely useful for square head screws as are employed on the brake adjusters.
I hope this has helped somewhat in your quest for ultimate braking performance.
Sorry Mate! I forgot to answer your question about the brake drum bedding in drift.
I use a piece of steam pipe (thick wall section) with 38 mm inside diameter. This clears the points of the nut hexagon nicely. The pipe piece is about 300 mm long. I have welded a machined cap into one end to accept hammer blows, the cap is about 15 mm thick and has a 5 mm spigot into the pipe inside diameter. A bit crude but works well and has lasted many years doing odd jobs around the workshop. I also use it for pressing bearings into position. A useful bit of kit, as the British would say.
Good luck!
I have one question: Do you live at the top of a steep hill?
Confucius He say - "He who has doubtful brakes, live at bottom of hill!"
Your interest in the forum: 1953 deluxe Javelin (NVM285) owned by father 1959-67 1949 standard Javelin (FBD327) owned in 1980s as daily transport 1952 deluxe Javelin (HJU592) owned since 1967 aka 'Yellow Peril'
This is GREAT Mike. Your patience with me is to be highly commended. You MUST be a saint.
I have made a ‘forked’ implement to lift off and on the brake shoes as you suggested and it makes life that bit easier!
I was faced with a problem re the four holes in the shoes for the springs- which ones to use? I have been advised that it is impossible to use the wrong ones. Really?
Working on the nearside rear, I have numbered each hole on the top (trailing) shoe from the adjuster to the wheel cylinder 1,2,3 and 4 and on the bottom (leading) from the adjuster to the wheel cylinder 5, 6, 7 and 8.
I have fitted them thus: green spring (nearest adjuster) hole 2 (top) to hole 6 (bottom) and yellow spring (nearest the wheel cylinder) hole 4 (top) to hole 8 (bottom). Both springs are 'at an angle' (as Mike said they would be) and they do appear parallel to each other. I believe that fitting the yellow spring between holes 3 and 7 would overstretch it but I wonder if I am correct.
Any thoughts please? I wouldn't like to be proved wrong after I have fitted the rear hub!
It is really good that we collectively are taking the trouble to carefully explain these tasks. It is important to give instructions that make sense to all, including those whose mother language is not English and is not full of jargon gained from years of car mechanics or engineering. A glossary or referral to a web resource such as 'wikipedia' should be used if there is any doubt. Please note that does not mean that we should not use the correct word.
There are now very few people with the skills that Jowett owners possess; that includes most garage 'mechanics'!
Pictures help, videos are even better. One day I will find time to put one made of the legendary Padman rebuild in the Gallery. Anybody beat me to it?
Short snippets of 'how hard to hit the drift' in a video with sound are much easier than describing in words.
I have sent a CD with my notes on the full hydraulic brake system, as a small part of my Technical Notes Series, to Keith Clements. Keith has placed it on JowettGallery.
In those notes there is a very good drawing that Girling put out, of the assembled brake assemblies - front and rear. I don't have the computer knowledge to send such things direct, nor do I have the knowledge of how to reduce the ever-growing megabytes to manageable levels.
If I had your postal address, I would gladly print and post to you. However, time is fast running out and the problem is that I cannot print a colour version due to an ongoing battle with Microsoft and Epson. In fifty-six years time there will really have to be a Microsoft/Epson/Hewlett-Packard Talk similar to this!
Personally, I don't believe in numbering holes - this practice can lead to confusion.
Now, the adjuster end spring fits through the holes so that there are a pair of empty hole between the installed spring and the adjuster. This applies to both brake shoes in the set.
Next, the wheel cylinder end has the spring ends fitted in the holes closest to the wheel cylinder. This applies to both brake shoes.
Thus, looking at the driver's side (off-side) (RHS) brake assembly and, traversing your gaze from rear to front of the car (with the wheel cylinder at the rear), the arrangement should be, with respect to the holes in the brake shoes, spring, spare holes, spring, spare holes.
Quite frankly, although I have never tried it, if the wheel cylinder spring is mounted incorrectly in the spare holes, it would be very difficult to install the brake drum.
In addition to all that, and still looking at the driver's side, the brake shoes must be arranged so that, looking at the upper shoe, the lining finishes close to the front end of the shoe. For the lower brake shoe the end with the flush lining/shoe end, is at the wheel cylinder end.
THAT IS IMPORTANT!
It would really be best if you had a look at the drawing.
We need to get a move on because NJD is just around the corner and I sincerely hope that your car will be there with correctly functioning brakes.
Your interest in the forum: 1953 deluxe Javelin (NVM285) owned by father 1959-67 1949 standard Javelin (FBD327) owned in 1980s as daily transport 1952 deluxe Javelin (HJU592) owned since 1967 aka 'Yellow Peril'
• What sort of washers do I place under the Nyloc nuts on the wheel cylinders?
Won’t spring washers tend to stop the cylinders moving freely?
Would flat washers be better or no washers?
• From the pictures put on the gallery (thanks Keith and Pat) I have got the green springs (nearest the adjuster) in the right holes. Unfortunately the picture only shows one hole on each shoe nearest the wheel cylinder and I have two!
• If anyone has done the rear brakes recently do you remember which holes I should use for the yellow springs, the holes furthest away from the cylinder or the holes nearest?
(The ones furthest away seem too far apart and the spring might be under too much tension but I need to check with other members)
I feel like I'm hogging this forum now but please bear with me!
The washers at the rear wheel cylinders should be Thackray washers. A Thackray washer is like a short two-coil spring. The spring medium being of flat section. They look like two spring washers joined together.
The nuts need to be tightened up against them and then backed-off in small increments until the wheel cylinder can slide with a firm push. I have never measured that in Newtons, but a good firm push is sufficient.
I know that Pat Lockyer believes that the wheel cylinders should be locked in place - but I don't agree with his sentiment.
The drawing of the brake shoe spring location is a perspective view and the upper rear holes are hidden from view by the brake lining and its support. No matter at all, the spring should sit parallel with the brake cylinder bore and clear the cylinder body.
Is there a brake specialist near you? I really think it would be best if you took the assemblies to such an establishment for professional advice.
Tell him that they are Girling brakes and he will know how to assemble them for you.
Australian Brake Service (ABS) at Ferntree Gully were entirely conversant with my Javelin brakes when I carried out the overhaul last year.
No offence to you, but I feel that I have been strung along on this subject. I felt that brakes are important enough to help make sure that they are overhauled properly.
I will now get back to my fight with Microsoft and Epson printers and try to get my near-new printer working again! They insist on providing next to no advice at all.
Kind regards,
Mike Allfrey.
Last edited by Mike Allfrey on Thu May 10, 2007 11:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Without taking my rear drums off I cannot remember which holes; but I do know you will not be able to assemble if you put them in the wrong holes. But as Mike says best to take to a specialist, if you can find one in this engineering wilderness! The problem is you never know on an old car who has fitted what. There is a possibility the shoes may not even be Jowett. Of course the springs should be in tension when on the adjuster and cylinder. The shoes should fit snugly once adjusted up. It is a good idea to check for even wear on the shoes after a hundred miles if you are in any doubt. Drums or backplates can be out of alignment. No doubt you will be back with questions on adjusting.
You can test the brakes by securely jacking the back wheels and running the engine to drive them! At least you will have the handbrake if the fronts or hydraulics fail. That has been needed by me on more than one occasion. The Jowett handbrake will stop the car, just.
Your interest in the forum: 1953 deluxe Javelin (NVM285) owned by father 1959-67 1949 standard Javelin (FBD327) owned in 1980s as daily transport 1952 deluxe Javelin (HJU592) owned since 1967 aka 'Yellow Peril'
Many thanks everyone for your patience and help (esp Mike, Pat and Keith). I know I have the correct brake shoes (supplied by JCC Spares). I am trying to source Thackray spring washers now!
Kind regards and thanks again. Your help is appreciated and sorry once again to have hogged the forum for so long!
