Javelins

[David Morris]

Hi All,

What a super rally! Our very grateful thanks to all involved in the organisation of the superb 2023 Rally.

Can I make a suggestion concerning the classes of Javelins?

At present we have a Concours class for Standard Javelins and another one for Deluxe Javelins.

My suggestion is that we should have three classes, One for Javelins prior to 1950, one for Deluxe models and a third for Standard Javelins. The rational for this is based on a letter from the Club's Technical Officer, Harry Brierly, who answered a reader's question on this point in a letter, which I have attached. The main point being that Jowett's didn't make any Standard or Deluxe Javelins prior to the 1950 model year. If you wanted a Javelin proir to 1950, you had a single model to choose from, with the 'art-deco' dashboard, either in leather or cloth.

My suggestion is that we should have a Concours class for these models, followed by one for Deluxe Javelins and a third for the Standard Javelins that emerged following the 1950 model year.

The three classes are visually quite different, as regards their interior dashboard layout and might, I believe, make sense, based on the attached description.

Just a thought?

All the best,

[Nick Webster]

David,
I am sorry I did not get to have a chat with you at the Rally. There seemed to be people that I kept bumping into and others not so much, so it is a pity I did not see you. It would have been nice to have a face to face chat, especially after all the help you gave me regarding the ex Lloyd Steel car.

Regarding your comments on the Concours. I couldn't agree more and have thought this way for many years. Unfortunately I suspect such an idea is several years too late, or am I wrong in observing that the cars entering for concours seem to be dwindling. Having been involved with the judging this year I was slightly frustrated by the marking form which is one size fits all and asks the judge to assess very generally, with things that might not be entirely relevant - such as hood fabric.

Not for the first time (and not only for Jowetts) I found myself wondering about casual concours vs serious cup hunters. The Jowett concours has always seemed a good natured affair and in the past people have happinly entered cars that really are most unlikely to get many points. And so it might be that for the fun concours, it never occurs to some people that when, months ago they fitted (say) a more modern replacement instrument gauge it might affect points. Perhaps "The People's Choice" is more of a barometer, although that is fairly predictable too.

Nick Webster

[David Morris]

Hi Nick,

Thank you for your reply. Yes, it's a pity we didn't meet up. I do hope the ex-Lloyd Steel's car is going well? Thinking about the Javelin scene, I completely agree that the concours definition cannot stay exactly to the condition in which the Javelins left the factory.

The remaining cars are around 70 years old and have been through a period when Javelins were seen as 'bangers' and priced at around £70 each or less. I know my first Javelin in 1964 cost me £75 and was one of the better ones. Owners swapped bits from different models of cars that were then scrapped and originality went out the window! Like you, I have served time as a concours judge and the cars that went on in my time to win prizes were good examples of the marque, perhaps not pristine but honest cars that have been lovingly conserved, with as much originality as feasible.

My suggestion about having three classes of Javelin marques was based on what became a step change for Jowett's around the 1950 Javelin model year. The Deluxe models had different and possibly better trim levels ( even the number of springs in the seats changed ), a completely different dashboard and instruments, heavier bumpers, a different rear axle and full hydraulic brakes. Many of these changes were also applied to the 'Standards'. With the cosmetic and engineering changes that were introduced in 1950, in my view this warrants recognition in the Concours classes we apply during the Rallies. Harry Brierley recognised that changes continued throughout production, like the engine modifications and the larger headlamps, to mention just a few. But the pre-1950 'art-deco' Javelins are separate, to me and possibly to Harry, the Club's Technical Officer, when he wrote his explanation long ago and which I attached previously. They are different cars to the post 1950 'Standards' and Deluxes. I believe they deserve their own distinctive class in recognition of the later wide-ranging changes made by Jowett's, to what then evolved as two model streams?

All the best,

David

[Chris Spencer]

Whilst appreciating the comments above - reading through the entries for this years rally some 7 number 1949 standard Javelins attended of which only 3 were entered for concours judging, 2 number 1949 Deluxe Javelins attended of which one was a no show and another entered into the concours - Therefore only 4 number 1949 Javelins one of which is a Deluxe which brings then into question the Standard vs Deluxe point that is being made in the first place - From a personal experience organising the judging is a huge task to undertake and there must be some common sense rational behind the classes of vehicle otherwise it would be difficult to undertake in the time permitted to judge & consolidate the results in time for that evenings presentations.

Taking on Nick's point of the generic points upon the concours sheets - It would be onerous task to produce & collate separate judging sheets for the different classes of vehicle - whilst appreciating that a Javelin does not have a hood fabric (Unless its one of the 2 dropheads produced)

Whilst the clubs concours awards form an important part of our annual rally its imperative that the awards & judging are not allowed to completely overshadow the event - Its critical that members ownership of representative examples of the marque are rewarded along with members who commit to serving the club but a balance must be struck throughout the rally to ensure that all members enjoy the event in the spirit that is intended.

[Forumadmin]

I think there are many different opinions on why we have a Concours competition and how it should be organised. Many think it should encourage the quality of the components such as paintwork, chrome and upholstery. Others may consider closeness to how the car came out of the factory both in finish and the originality of the components. Others may concentrate, not on the superficial look, but on the mechanics, chassis, wiring, cleanliness, door fit, and the quality of any repairs done to the vehicle.

The selection of cars offered for the Concours day is not representative of the cars that are currently in existence, so should we have a way of judging cars that do not come to the rally? This could be similar to the way some cars are now advertised for sale or when filling in the Vehicle Condition form for insurance by having an album of photos for each car showing the details we consider important to judge.

There are of course limitations to such a virtual Concours but it would be a way of showing specific points of originality and quality of workmanship in a detailed way that the current judging method does not. There could also be a conversation between the judges and the contenders to focus on specific items to finalise any score for a car.

It would also help those trying to decide how to restore what would be best or most desirable in the eyes of others.

The way in which the car was restored and the number of miles covered since 'restoration' may also be taken into account in the overall score. However, the album of photos, comments and score for each component should be available so that comparisons can be made.

This idea is not to detract from encouraging owners to enter the field Concours, but to provide a way to encourage better restorations and to help those who will be doing them in the future.

This open and continuous process would also generate some discussion by allowing the whole Jowett community to get involved in the 'judging' .

[David Morris]

Hi Chris,
Many thanks for your post. I should like to take this opportunity to thank you and Sharon, and the whole Rally Committee for all your massive contributions to the rally. As Wallace and Grommit might say in Yorkshire, “that was a right cracking show”. We really enjoyed it!

It’s easy for this post to become a discussion about the concours part of the event, which I didn’t intend. Maybe that’s a subject for a different post?

My thoughts were that, if in 1949 you had entered the Jowett London Showroom at 44 Albemarle Street, you would have been offered a Javelin, either in cloth trim or leather and in the colours available at the time. If we accept what Harry Brierley has stated, there would be no discussion on whether you would like a Standard or Deluxe model, they just didn’t exist then.

Taking your summary of the pre-1950 cars entered for the concours this year, then there would be a select group of 4 cars, if we had a new concours class for these pre-1950 Javelins. Perhaps we should term these models as ‘art deco dashboard’ models, as some might actually have been sold in 1950? They would be neither Standards nor Deluxe, but truly representative of the cars you would be offered to buy in 1949.

By removing these Javelins from the later Deluxe and Standard concours classes, this might encourage owners of the later cars to enter future concours listings? The cars would be judged against their peers, not against a car whose interior didn’t really look like theirs? The post-1950 changes were largely cosmetic.

The post 1950 true Standards ( including those later ones with the two round instruments ) are, to me, quite rare. They were sold at a considerable reduction on the prices for a Deluxe. But I guess that a UK purchaser for a new Javelin in 1950 onwards would be pretty ‘well heeled’ and probably be quite prepared to pay a bit more for a Deluxe, with the cachet that this implied against the competition. I am old enough to remember seeing Javelins on the road in those years and they knocked the socks off any other new cars then around. My guess is that many of the Standards were exported, where the trials of hot sunshine didn’t affect the wooden dashboard and a cloth seat would be welcomed in the heat?

I realise that adding yet another Concours Class would involve additional work on everyone, but I think this might correct an anomaly that I believe has been around for some time. It might even mean more members would like to enter their cars into the event, perhaps in slimmer concours classes that really match their cars. As for the concours event itself, I believe it should be fun, not to be taken too seriously, as in some other clubs. It certainly shouldn't be the main event, which to me at least is the chance to meet fellow Jowetteers and enjoy the fellowship that is the hallmark of our great Club.

Once again, many thanks for your support and enthusiasm,

All the best,

David