ACCESS TO JOWETTTALK

[Tony Fearn]

This is only my opinion, and it may be controversial, and I expect to be shot down.

In the past, I have raised this question a number of times, and at least once with the webmaster by telephone.

In my opinion, not enough Jowett Car Club members are bothering to access this site.

We have lost the vast knowledge of such people as George Garside, my friend and long-time Club member, because he now finds it difficult, or too involved to bring JowettTalk up on his computer. I stress JowettTalk as he probably only wants to have use of this site, rather than the wider offering.
He is a fount of pre-war and Bradford paraphernalia as well as Jowett lore.

George posted, or more especially answered members queries continually in the recent past. We haven't heard from him for some time, and not because he's no longer with us.

He and others have stopped trying to access JowettTalk as they perceive it to be too difficult to log-on.

Sometime in the past, and I can't remember how, I put a link on the top bar of the Google page which I click. JowettTalk then fills my screen.

I have had my password remembered, so it just comes up on the screen and I can access all the sections. I am still a member and have an email address.

There is also another Jowett site which has a much wider content, but I don't bother with that. You've probably guessed that I don't have a smart phone.

I feel that we are missing out on the knowledge of many Jowett-minded people, mostly Club members, who can't be bothered trying JowettTalk on their computer because it's a faff.

Not everyone (including me) is a computer expert.

How about a piece in the Jowetteer magazine with a very simple 1, 2, 3,etc step by step guide to putting JowettTalk on the Google task bar, choosing a password, and having it remembered so that more of us not-so-good-at-computer members might just be able to join in and then we'll see just what pearls of wisdom from past ages might appear on this site.

Tony.

[Keith Clements]

Thanks for that prompt Tony.
There is quite a lot to consider. But here goes. Please all comment on any point.
George regularly posts on Facebook so suspect that satisfies his yearning for Jowett contact. I suspect one reason for non participation on JowettTalk is the agressive and addictive Facebook marketing.

I have been thinking about such for the Jowett services. The recent mailshot to non renewers gave them a one click link to see their membership listing and vehicle listing. I could do a similar mailshot for all members to promote JowettTalk and possibly a one click registration for those not already registered or one click access for those already registered.

1. Much of JowettTalk is accessible without registration or login. The parts not so accessible are those deemed personal which might be trawled by undesirables and parts deemed of value to the Jowett clubs which might encourage membership.
2. Since we need to control the content that is posted in the forum and prevent undesirable content, JowettTalk requires users to register which involves making sure they have a genuine interest in Jowetts. This requires the collection of some information from the prospective user and vetting by the Forumadmin. The information provided allows Forumadmin to determine club membership and thus access to protected parts of JowettTalk. Whilst this registration process might be a challenge for some, it has been honed over 17 years of operation. However, that does not mean it cannot be changed to make it easier, so suggestions are welcome.
3. The password required by JowettTalk needs to be strong since the user's other credential (their user name) is public. There are many ways of storing or remembering such strong passwords but should you loose or forget the password then the forgotten password link may be used. However, that does require JowettTalk being able to email you and this will be impossible if you have changed your email address. If you cannot access your JowettTalk email address, you need to contact Forumadmin.
4. Jowett Member Services can help if you have forgotten your username.

jms-JT.PNG

The above is a screenshot of part of the Menu when you use the activation link to get into Jowett Member Services.
You see that it tells you your JowettTalk user name among other JT data.
5. The password required by Jowett Member Services does not need to be strong and only requires you to use the email address that is in the membership list. Registration on Jowett Member Services does need to validate the requestor's identity and such a process does need to be fairly secure as success gives access to personal details. Member Services does give access to JowettTalk.
6. Google and Facebook credentials can be used to access JowettTalk which might help those who have already been vetted by those organisations. This can be set up by the user once they have registered and logged in to JowettTalk.
7. The software used for JowettTalk, phpbb, is used by 44.5 million forums so I am not about to customise it for our use as this adds to the maintenance since it is updated every few months. However, if you have used a phpbb forum which seems to have easier registration then please send me a link.
8, I am thinking about updating the Jowett Member Services to integrate better with JowettTalk.
9. In order to help anyone having problems using JowettTalk it needs an understanding of what the problem is, otherwise I might be helping with the wrong issue.
A, Are they not able to get to the login page of JowettTalk using a browser?
B. Have they forgotten their username?
C. Have they forgotten their password?
D. Have they access to the email address they used to register on JowettTalk?
E. Have they lost their Windows, Mac, IOS, Android desktop icon (shortcut) or is the icon pointing to the wrong place?
F. Have they lost their browser bookmark or is the bookmark pointing to the wrong place?

Much help is available using these links.
https://www.intowindows.com/how-to-crea ... indows-10/
https://support.apple.com/en-gb/guide/s ... 576f8c/ios
https://support.revelsystems.com/s/arti ... ome-Screen

and for saving login credentials
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/win ... 5976d1c886
https://support.apple.com/en-gb/guide/i ... 468/ipados
https://support.google.com/accounts/ans ... %3DAndroid

[Keith Clements]

We could broaden this topic to not only considering access issues but also usage, content and organisation.
So are there any volunteers to help organise and index the content or are there specific problems with usage?

Some may also ask why can I not download an app for my iphone or android. Yes it is quite easy to program an app but somebody has to do that and then commit to maintaining it for each version of iphone, ipad, chromebook or android device and each version of phpbb, the forum software. I would be happy to help any prospective volunteer. Whereas your favourite browser can be used and is suitable for most ages and versions of most devices. I do not allow the Facebook app on any of my devices since it cannot be trusted, but use the browser access method.

But back to why use JowettTalk in preference to the other web based Jowett facilities? JowettTalk contains virtually everything that has been published on Jowetts, ever, along with technical discussion going back 25 years that has captured almost everything you would want to know about Jowetts. But note it is not accessible to Search Engines such as Google. Should it be?

Or perhaps, more importantly, why use anything other than JowettTalk to communicate with others interested in Jowetts?
Is it because people want to say what they did today with their Jowett and get pleasure from seeing what others are doing?
Comments please!

[PJGD]

Keith, I will admit that I am surprised and perhaps a little disappointed that there is not greater participation from the Jowett community than there typically is. I am not sure why that is the case or what can be done about it. The amount of useful and actionable information on JowettTalk is amazing and of great value to the community. Your commitment is greatly appreciated.

[Srenner]

I find logging on the same at all sites. User name and some kind of code, so I fail to see trouble signing in as the issue. I think one difference lies in the user's goal.

I use a dozen or more sites based on the same tech platform that look and perform the same way as JT. While access without an account or signing in varies with each site, they are all less visual than Faceplant. And all have much better "libraries" where real information can be found.

FB is much more People magazine rather than Time or perhaps in modern terms, a Tweet and not an email. As KC noted, their structure has "addiction" as a primary goal. It's super easy to see what friends and acquaintances are doing and to add your "like'. Or to collect "likes". Or to ask a quick repair question when searching JT takes some effort.

On JT this last week, Moises asked about timing the cam/valves, but no one had responded for days. Seems unlikely on FB.

Perhaps a corollary is why I suggest posting cars for sale on Bring A Trailer. Why would I post on a small site with limited viewers when I can get BaT to attract millions of eyes to my car? FB is the giant brand name.

[Chris Spencer]

Keith's first answer to Tony's points automatically reveals the context of problem - whilst I fully appreciate that Keith is responding diligently with the answers the vast majority of people reading the response will have lost interest and tuned out before the end of the first paragraph - I also appreciate that Keith has spent decades at the forefront of information technology but there appears to be lack of understanding that most people / PC owners just want to keep things simple - most PC owners of say 50 year old plus haven't grown up with such technology - They are in essence self taught - I most certainly am - The web / PC's wasn't about when we were at school and for many were not part of their working lives either - George is not the only one either there are many other members who don't utilise JT because they find it difficult to both log on & navigate - Ok its like shelling peas for some and comes naturally but for others it's not that easy and until Keith understands that and communicates to the less IT knowledgeable & members that find the site not that user friendly in a simple straightforward manner then the problem will continue to exist.

[Keith Clements]

The subject is important and the question deserves contemplative responses. Getting unsolicited contributions from people is difficult as not many are confident in putting their thoughts down on paper or in a post that will be public or at least to an audience of club members. That is why we have both public and members' spaces on JowettTalk. Same as Facebook!

How many members go along to section meetings, attend virtual meetings, contact other members by telephone or email, or contribute to the club magazine? Not many and not often.

JowettTalk always has been aimed at the far flung members needing answers to technical and other questions on Jowetts. It has been extended to provide a library of information for all, not just to the few with access to such resources.

Many look at JowettTalk without logging in. I explained in the previous post why people need to log in. If they have difficulty doing that then we can help but they do need to want to do it. That is where marketing comes in.