Talk to me about water pumps.
I thought I would cheer myself up today after battling with the Javelin's brakes (driving me crazy) by seeing if the engine would run.
Happy Days!! Started afer about three spins of the crank!
Wait a minute - what's that whistling noise? Drive belt slipping. Water pump very stiff. Not seized, I can turn it by hand, but very stiff.
I have got as far as removing the fan from the shaft, then the pump from the engine (lost the Woodruff key from the pulley. Damn. Hopefully I will find one that I can file to size); front cover off pump (drove a thin knife blade into the gasket, which had been glued on with Red Hermatite), drifted the shaft out frontwards from its tube.
Now I am pering into the water chamber. I see what looks like a bearing inner race where the shaft enters the pump chamber - or is it a bush? Either way, the only way I can see it coming out of the casting is a long drift from the fan end of the outer tube, but I wanted to check with the experts before getting heavy-handed with the drifts.
So far I have found the impeller to be fine, both water seals to be serviceable, like new in fact, the shaft is a bit scabby, the front bearing is useable. I am wondering what was picking up and making the shaft so hard to turn. Could it be that bearing/bush that is still in the casting?
I have searched Jowett Talk and read the various posts, but I didn't read anything that helped me understand the sectional drawing in the WSM. Hopefully someone will share their hands-on experience.
Where does one buy a new felt washer? JCS? I haven't used them yet. I am hoping to fix this very soon as I am supposed to be touring Scotland in it in a couple of weeks.
Water pump repair
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AlecGatherer
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johnairey
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Re: Water pump repair
Alec,
Go to search and put in Water Pump Refurbishment, you are looking for the Severnside article which will be of help.
The key required is a 304 Woodruff key which is 3/32 thick, all pump spares available from JCS.
I have a spare pump you could loan if you need it whilst you rebuild yours.
John
Go to search and put in Water Pump Refurbishment, you are looking for the Severnside article which will be of help.
The key required is a 304 Woodruff key which is 3/32 thick, all pump spares available from JCS.
I have a spare pump you could loan if you need it whilst you rebuild yours.
John
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Keith Clements
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AlecGatherer
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Re: Water pump repair
Great offer John; I may need to take you up on that, but hopefully I am getting somewhere.
With the aid of printed-off guides as per above - many thanks, Keith - I have found the following:
One Oilite bush in situ , front face flush with rear of the waterchamber and fixed firmly.
The other Oilite bush - supposedly at the fan end- was posted missing, but was subsequently discovered inside the steel extension tube. It is a sliding fit in the steel tube. The fit on the shaft is acceptable, though the mating land on the shaft is pitted. I have judged that it will be serviceable bearing (sorry) in mind that there is practically no side thrust on it. I plan to anchor it in place by removing one of the studs that take the fan support struts, drilling a small hole into the cast boss, and drilling and pegging the bush in place with a short length of brass rod or similar. The fit is acceptable in the steel tube but I want to prevent it from going awol again.
Both water seals are useable. The rear one is a mushroom, and will need bonding into place with a modicum of Blue Hylomar due to corrosion in the seating. It bears onto a soldered-on brass slip ring on the impeller.
The front one is a spring-loaded carbon ring top hat type. The carbon bears directly onto the cast steel impeller. No sign of water leaking past.
The front bearing is useable. It is a fully-sealed type with a metal shield to both faces. I propose digging out one of the shields and greasing it from that side; I intend leaving the front-facing shield in place as the felt ring is not over robust, and does nothing anyway if the shield is in place.
Joy of Joys! I found that a Woodruff key from my Riley water pumps is the same size as the errant one.
All access holes for lubricating were blocked solid. Hopefully some oil applied occasionally will keep this pump going for a while. I will research the availablilty and prices of water pump spares from JCS when I find my way around the club a bit better.
I relate all this in the hope that some expert will stop me before I do something silly.
My game plan of touring Scotland next month hangs in the balance.
With the aid of printed-off guides as per above - many thanks, Keith - I have found the following:
One Oilite bush in situ , front face flush with rear of the waterchamber and fixed firmly.
The other Oilite bush - supposedly at the fan end- was posted missing, but was subsequently discovered inside the steel extension tube. It is a sliding fit in the steel tube. The fit on the shaft is acceptable, though the mating land on the shaft is pitted. I have judged that it will be serviceable bearing (sorry) in mind that there is practically no side thrust on it. I plan to anchor it in place by removing one of the studs that take the fan support struts, drilling a small hole into the cast boss, and drilling and pegging the bush in place with a short length of brass rod or similar. The fit is acceptable in the steel tube but I want to prevent it from going awol again.
Both water seals are useable. The rear one is a mushroom, and will need bonding into place with a modicum of Blue Hylomar due to corrosion in the seating. It bears onto a soldered-on brass slip ring on the impeller.
The front one is a spring-loaded carbon ring top hat type. The carbon bears directly onto the cast steel impeller. No sign of water leaking past.
The front bearing is useable. It is a fully-sealed type with a metal shield to both faces. I propose digging out one of the shields and greasing it from that side; I intend leaving the front-facing shield in place as the felt ring is not over robust, and does nothing anyway if the shield is in place.
Joy of Joys! I found that a Woodruff key from my Riley water pumps is the same size as the errant one.
All access holes for lubricating were blocked solid. Hopefully some oil applied occasionally will keep this pump going for a while. I will research the availablilty and prices of water pump spares from JCS when I find my way around the club a bit better.
I relate all this in the hope that some expert will stop me before I do something silly.
My game plan of touring Scotland next month hangs in the balance.
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AlecGatherer
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- Given Name: Alec
Re: Water pump repair
The impeller of the pump I am trying to put back into service does n ot have a shroud, by which I mean that the vanes rise from the base of the casting and are not connected at their forward end by a radial ring-shaped part of the casting.
I am presuming that it is an original Jowett-supplied part, and that the ones I am looking at in the superb tracts on water pump rebuilding that I have printed and am using as a vade-mecum are improved parts supplied by JCS. Am I correct?
Much of my reasoning involved in this task is that the engine was rebuilt some years ago and presumably has been working satisfactorily, so I feel that restoring it rather than wholesale replacement of parts should be feasible.
At this stage may I give thanks to the Severnside and Australian owners/members who took the trouble to write these tomes. Much appreciated.
I am presuming that it is an original Jowett-supplied part, and that the ones I am looking at in the superb tracts on water pump rebuilding that I have printed and am using as a vade-mecum are improved parts supplied by JCS. Am I correct?
Much of my reasoning involved in this task is that the engine was rebuilt some years ago and presumably has been working satisfactorily, so I feel that restoring it rather than wholesale replacement of parts should be feasible.
At this stage may I give thanks to the Severnside and Australian owners/members who took the trouble to write these tomes. Much appreciated.
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Keith Clements
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Re: Water pump repair
Jowetts later pumps had the vanes connected by a brass ring as shown in photos. Not a JCS mod.
You are right to rebuild and I would not worry too much about not having the later impellor.
If the car does overheat then there are a miriad of other issues besides the pump that need to be looked at.
That said the new design of pump from Drummond does shift more water.
You are right to rebuild and I would not worry too much about not having the later impellor.
If the car does overheat then there are a miriad of other issues besides the pump that need to be looked at.
That said the new design of pump from Drummond does shift more water.
skype = keithaclements ;
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AlecGatherer
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Re: Water pump repair
Thanks Keith. So mine is an early original Jowett type impeller. I can live with that.
It is in remarkably uncorroded condition. Might be a new-old-stock one that someone found.
It is in remarkably uncorroded condition. Might be a new-old-stock one that someone found.
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AlecGatherer
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Re: Water pump repair
Not going very well. Rebuilt the pump, fitted, started up - it does leak, just too much to live with. I know that the seals need bedding in, but that is on a new set of components. As I am reassembling a used pump, I have decided to give up. In the fullness of time I may revisit this one with a new set of seals, and an impeller and spindle. But that isn't going to see me out and about in it any time soon.
I have bitten the bullet and negotiated a new pump.
All contributions gratefully received.
I have bitten the bullet and negotiated a new pump.
All contributions gratefully received.
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Keith Clements
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Re: Water pump repair
You could try altering the torque on the pulley nut. This sometimes alters the pressure on the seals and stops the leak. Did you bed the seals in with silicone?
skype = keithaclements ;
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AlecGatherer
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Re: Water pump repair
I did, but I am suspicious of the front seal and the way it bears direct onto the steel impeller. The contact face was quite pitted. I would have thought there should be a brass washer soldered onto the impeller to lessen the abrasive effect. This is where the droplets are being flung out.
TBH I was rather hoping that the pump was watertight even though it was seized; a hope too far I suspect.
Anyway, I have bought my way out of this particular problem. On to the next one now, running rough. I was told it ran well. At least the oil pressure looks to be OK.
TBH I was rather hoping that the pump was watertight even though it was seized; a hope too far I suspect.
Anyway, I have bought my way out of this particular problem. On to the next one now, running rough. I was told it ran well. At least the oil pressure looks to be OK.