Dismantling a very seized engine

[David Morris]

Hi Jonathan,

Congratulations! She is apart at last! Already, there are a few observations we can make from the photos of the crankcases.

She looks like an early crankcase, as there are no signs of stiffening webs, which came along on the Series 3 crankcase. To me, that's good news as the later cases seem to suffer more from corrosion.

She has been back to the factory for reconditioning in the past, evident from the data plate near the rear shoulder of the crankcase. It looks like a later camshaft, with the vernier adjustment holes, although it may be beyond use due to corrosion? There should be plenty of spares available, if you need one.

Hard to see, but it looks as if the factory have worked on the crankcase, by deep drilling at least one of the head studs, to cross right through the visible water port, and that helps to stop a fracture across the water port when tightening the head. It was a later factory mod. As was drilling out the oil feeds to the cam followers and camshaft, as I think we can see the larger brass plugs fitted again as a late factory modification to close off the enlarged oil ways.

So, if you can get the crankcase cleaned up and there are no visible signs of cracks, you are on to a potential winner! My advice is to get her cleaned and then do an air pressure test on the crankcase halves.

Good luck and all the best,

David

[Keith Clements]

Jonathan,
Can you say what techniques you think worked and those which did not?

[jonathanrippon]

Many thanks gents!

I have never experienced engine internals so badly corroded however it was clear that the engine had spent a long time in the elements, on dismantling it the sump and the combustion chambers were full of water. I don't think any of the engine internals will be salvageable, perhaps the crank if it were reground and the starter dog was drilled out of the crank. The sad thing was that from what I could see the engine had probably been in good running condition when it was removed however who can say how many years ago that was.

I don't think the cola was making much of an impression so I moved to diesel, one of the problems was that two of the pistons were at the base of their stroke and of course the others at the top so it was so although it was possible to stand the engine on it's side with diesel in the bores it could be only done at one side of each piston. I used heat and percussion on Saturday and although I got two pistons to move one actually eventually broke up. Ultimately I got to the point where I didn't want to use any more force due to a combination of exhaustion and fear of damaging the crankcases so I cut two of the conrods with a junior hacksaw - I felt I had had a good enough go at being able to salvage them!

I'm now at a crossroads. One plan is to take the crankcases to a local engineer I have used and ask him to clean the crankcases, push out the liners, carry out a pressure test and drill out the three or four sheared off small bolts or machine screws (I don't have a pillar drill and wouldn't risk using a hand-drill). The other would be to clean up the crankcases myself as much as possible and remove the liners myself (perhaps heating the casings gently in the oven to expedite), using the 'saved money' to buy my own pillar drill and make up a pressure test kit.

I am very fortunate in that I have the 'number 2' engine with the badly cracked crankcase (I think this one is ex Chris Spencer) which although looking similarly unkempt as no 1 did at least didn't appear to be full of water so I am hopeful I can salvage a serviceable oil pump, crank, con rods, cam and followers. Wish me luck when I dismantle this one!

[David Morris]

Hi Jonathan,

Personally, I would have a go on your DIY solution. I don't expect your local engineer will have the necessary blanking plates etc. to do the pressure test? Regarding getting the liners out, I have not had much trouble. The liner material is very good steel, with a high percentage of chrome. Of course they will be tight in the crankcase and you need to remove the locking plates, if they are still there? Putting the crankcase halves in the oven is a good idea, but only when she who should be obeyed is out! Your next Sunday roast might be flavoured with old engine oil?

You will need to make up a simple tool to extract the liners. Use a couple of the head studs, with a handy plate drilled with three holes, two of which to drop over the studs. A second plate is needed, that preferably is round, and just fits up inside the liner bore, with a central hole to take some man-sized studding. This runs up the cylinder bore and is threaded through the hole in the top plate. Nuts on the top and bottom of the studding mean you should be able to draw the liner up and out from the crankcase half.

I guess that you would be doing this on the No.2 engine as well, as you will need to swap everything from the No.2 crankcase to the better No.1 crankcase? The pistons in No.2 might well be savable, although I expect you will need new rings from JCS? Save all the copper shims from the shoulders of the liners, as you will need these to shim the liners. Don't think about using the black Klingerite gaskets found in some rebuild sets. They will just cause you problems. Much better to use the copper shims to give you the correct liner projection of 0.006", with a thin smear of jointing paste under the pack of shims on each liner. I use Stag Wellseal, but we all have our favourites. I think some people set the projections, pop on and tighten down the heads to 25lbs/ft with no gaskets, leave for a few days and then strip off the heads to check the projections are still correct?

If you are having the crank reground, make sure you supply the machine shop with the replacement big end and main shells. It's a good test of the quality of the machine shop if they understand, without being told, that the radius on the big end journals needs to be right and that the shoulders on the rear main need to be ground to fit the new rear shells. My machine shop pulled a well-thumbed manual out from under the counter and looked-up the requirements without being prompted!

While the crank is in the shop, it might be worth fitting a Speedy-Sleeve to the journal where the rear main oil seal rubs. This is often grooved from past contact and the Speedy-Sleeve will give you a new bearing surface, as well as a useful 0.025" gain in diameter, that helps the oil seal perform better. It's around £25 well spent.

Do hope it all goes well and don't forget the new 'O' rings for the balance pipe!

Looking forward to hearing your report on successful progress!

David

[David Morris]

Hi Jonathan,

Re the sheared starter dog. I know that you can use so-called 'easy-outs' but in my experience there are usually cheaply made and snap, leaving you worse off. One solution I saw recently on YouTube was to sacrifice a TORX bit in a good cause. The guy drilled vertically down into the broken stud with a drill bit slightly smaller than the diameter of the TORX bit he was going to use. He then hammered the poor TORX bit down into this hole.

Using the hex on the top of the TORX bit, he was then able to unscrew the broken stud. Seemed to work for him and possibly worth a try? Of course, if the TORX bit shears off, you are in double trouble! Probably a bit of heat on the nose of the crank might help, before you heave away on the little TORX bit? It might also work on the bolts you said have unfortunately sheared off in the crankcase? Here, some heat on the aluminium could work wonders?

All the best,

David

[Forumadmin]

Much easier just to weld a nut on it, that is if you have a welder!

[Mike Allfrey]

And I thought I was having problems!!

I would soak the crankcase halves in a tub of diesel fuel, completely submerged, and get on with the rest of the car's restoration - tongue in cheek, a bit.

You are a hero! I hope the balance pipes are not corroded through, and that the valve gear oil feed pipes are intact.

Keep at it!

Mike A.
Melbourne, Australia.

[jonathanrippon]

Many thanks for all of the helpful and supportive comments. I think I will just persevere myself, I managed to pick up a secondhand pillar drill yesterday which was helpful. The good thing about the project is that there’s no chance of getting bored, there is work in every direction